cam question

[soma]

hey guys,been around for awhile and have read through most all of the pages here finding awesome material,anyway something i havent really seen and google searches arnt doing me any good it seems.i have an 85 cutlass 442 pretty much bone stock aside from some headers that recently developed a rod knock.dont think its too bad new bearings for sure and hopefully the crank is in good shape but for now i have a deal on a 455 olds bone stock as well.its of the 73-76 variety with bleh "J" heads,4 barrel intake,for sure the run of the mill 455 with small valves...either way though going from the 307 to this should be fun =P.
onto my issue and i hope its not just retarded to ask but is the cam in the 307 even slightly superior to the cam presently in the 455?i've read the 455's gross lift is .435,.435 while my vin 9 307 has a lift of .440,.440.
i know its not a huge jump but since i have them both here would it be a worth while swap at all or would it even work?i honestly dont know much about the big blocks but ive read most everything aside from intake and pushrods are interchangable.again i know this is more of a why bother undertaking but its here and im curious =P

 

[SoFloG]

Pretty sure sbo and bbo cams are not interchangeable. And definitely comparing an emission motor small block cam to an older big block one is apples to oranges. You also can't decide a cam's value based off of .005" of lift.

 

[soma]

was just curious,the 455 is a smogger actually egr and all so not entirely sure if that makes a difference or not.either way thanks for the heads up guess it will stay in its home in the 307

also on a side note both bank angles are 39 degrees,bearing diameter and over all length as well as timing gears are the same.i understand its pretty much not worth the extra .005 lift but yeah,have them both here and curiosity had the better of me

 

[565bbchevy]

Even if the 307 cam was a slightly better cam there are too many variables swapping a used cam to another block.
If you want a bigger cam you would be better off just buying a new cam and lifters kit for the 455 that will make more power than either of your current cams that were designed over 30 years ago..

 

[soma]

i get that and appriciate the info again was just curious.have them both here and tearing down the 455 for a full gasket swap and clean up as it was in storage for upwards of 7 years from what the guy said.turns freely with obvious compression(didnt take the spark plugs out).but yeah just tearing them both down and got to reading about all the various things on an olds block that interchange for all the new stuff i recently put into my 307(brand new timing set as well as new stock hv oil pump,rebuilt distributor yada yada yada).

on that note though one more stupid thought banging around in there and i know im probably gonna get it for asking but can i keep the computer on a 455?cr is same as the 307 being like what...8.1 :0?i have all the accoutrements to run it but not sure about the timing...i know 307's wanted like 20 degrees while i think the 455 from what ive read wants 10 to 14?so my guts says no but ive never tried personally.ive heard 350's run fine on it though

 

[Canon_Mutant]

Actually, it is possible, but it will take some tweaking. The SB distributor works fine in the BB. You will need to modify the idle bleeds on your CCC [better yet, find a couple of scrap carbs to modify, one to screw up, one to do right, and keep your original - original] for the additional cylinder volume [I went all the way to .056 from like .042 I think the SB diameter was??] and will want to get some 68-72 vintage secondary metering rods since the SB rods are naturally inadequate for BB open loop foot to the floor fun the computer is oblivious about. Beyond that, you need all the sensors the computer cares about . . . EGR, Both Temps, Vacuum, O2 [I'm think I am forgetting one, sorry] but you don't need the air pump crap. I even kept the gas fume recirculation can on mine which may be the one I am forgetting that you really do not need, I just kept it [why not?]. The computer will surprisingly even handle some cam in the BB. For example, mine did not like the Mondello 20-22 224/234 @ .050 duration which was the first one we tried but likes the Comp Cams 224/230 @ .050 fine. I did notice this cam now has a .505/.505 flat lift pattern and mine is a .496/.512 [not sure why they changed it but the computer cares about cam duration, and its effect on vacuum, not lift. We built this engine 10 years ago. Beyond that, we did a lot of tweaking just trying to get the big block to perform efficiently down the highway. It ran OK on factory code but closed loop lean burn mode took three code tweaks before we got closed loop carb and spark advance matched to yield 18-20mpgs when we were done. Why? Why not? This would likely not be necessary if you don't care about fuel efficiency [most peeps just want POWER]. I even put Magnaflow high performance cats on my 2 1/2" true dual exhaust to help keep the air cleaner. But, my 442 is almost fuel injection snappy and, with a heavily beefed Bowtie Stage 3 200-4R [which you will need to address if you want yours to live long] and the factory 3.73 gears out back will hit 60 in 5.2 with NO traction, and 13.4/103 in the 1/4, again traction limited. Per other threads, since I am now retired and these wonderful companies like UMI have developed all these new Gbody suspension goodies, I am getting back to traction, turning, and stopping priorities now.

Or, a 350 is pretty much plug and play though there is no replacement for displacement, or you can go old school, scrap the computer, get an Edelbrock carb, get an old school distributor, and the BB conversion becomes MUCH easier.

 

[soma]

outstanding =) thank you for the info.i have both doug rowes and cliff's booked,have read them cover to cover quite a few times i love fiddling with quadrajets.i have a full assortment of varying rods secondary and primary as well as jets(years of junkyard rifling) so im sure i can come up with some set up that works well.dropping the computer is a breeze yes but i dunno...ive always liked the computer honestly,properly adjusted and everythign working it manages great mpg for a v8 of the era.timing curves leave something to be desired but i been throwing the idea around of burning a custom prom so i can fiddle with that as well.have a bit more investigative reading to do on that but seems pretty strait forward.

 

[olds307 and 403]

Either pick up a mild aftermarket cam or leave it stock. Regasket and add a new timing set. Those two stock cams are so close to each other, you won't notice any difference. Your current headers might even actually work with the 455, others have used them with minor mods and massaging. Go much over stock smog specs and your 2004R will fail fast. I would overfill it a quart but a deeper pan/700R4 or early 4L60E filter, hardened stator, pump rings, stiffer slide spring, big Trans Go shift with servo is a good idea to give it a fighting chance. Even a stock smog 455 will be much better than the 307.

 

[Canon_Mutant]

outstanding =) thank you for the info.i have both doug rowes and cliff's booked,have read them cover to cover quite a few times i love fiddling with quadrajets.i have a full assortment of varying rods secondary and primary as well as jets(years of junkyard rifling) so im sure i can come up with some set up that works well.dropping the computer is a breeze yes but i dunno...ive always liked the computer honestly,properly adjusted and everythign working it manages great mpg for a v8 of the era.timing curves leave something to be desired but i been throwing the idea around of burning a custom prom so i can fiddle with that as well.have a bit more investigative reading to do on that but seems pretty strait forward.

I am approaching 60 and have some health issues but if you decide to take the BB idea to the next level [and you are actually serious!], PM me and I will see what all I can dig up on my project? I have a drawer full somewhere but we unfortunately moved 2 years ago so I will have to search for it! I don't want to hassle with it unless you are serious. But, information is power . . . in more ways than one.

The nice thing about the CCC is there is no primary jet tweaking/matching to do. The electronic solenoid takes care of the mixture surprisingly nicely for what it is. I always thought it was a stupid gimmick, period, until I messed around with it. Fuel injection is always preferred but the CCC is a lot more capable than most people give it credit for. Idling is the only real problem I had going to the big block. Oh, it would idle fine at 1200rpm where the primaries are slightly open, but just would not idle off the idle bleeds alone which took some trial and error idle bleed boring until pretty soon she was purring like a kitten at 750rpm with a really nice rumble from that Comp Cams camshaft. And I would grab you some W-Z manifolds and punt the headers and their associated headaches. You can flow plenty of air through W-Zs into a 2 1/2" dual exhaust to ever get all that power to the ground [the problem I have now - but a nice problem to have!]. Even 270HP and 400lb.ft. from that later 455 will be a noticeable improvement over the 307.

If you want to go to the next race car level, then this whole idea needs punted.

 

[soma]

just incase i did it wrong ive never actually pm'ed anyone on here i sent you a message cannon