Drag Racing El Camino
- Thread starter ELCKY
- Start date
- Status
Thanks for the compliment,
My Elky is an 80 ss. I searched for weeks for a 10 bolt 8.5" posi. rear end and finally found one in Illinois. It came from an 87 Grand National that was wrecked. I sand blasted it, put new bearings and seals, new brake cylinders and brake lines, new shoes and drums and had it painted black. It was a lot of work but it will be the last rear end I ever mess with. One other thing I think you might be interested in. A rear sway bar. I hit the local bone yard and pulled one out of a Pontiac Grand Prix of all cars. It looked like a typical G body rear end set up so I took a chance. All I can say is wow! If there was a way in percentages I could explain how much better it corners it would be high! It fit perfectly, a direct bolt in and of course it was sand blasted and painted.
Let me do some checking on your 12 bolt. I'm gathering it isn't in yet? If I'm not mistaken, you will need an adapter kit so to speak to get that 12 bolt to fit in properly. The 12 bolts from Chevelle's place their upper and lower control arms a little different location along with the spring platform. The 70 Chevelle was not a G body and the rear-end are not a direct bolt in. BUT, like I said I could be wrong. My neighbor (motor head like me) put a 12 bolt in his 79 Malibu (typical G Body) and had to use a kit he got from Summit that relocated a few things. I'll check with him today and get back with you.
My Elky is an 80 ss. I searched for weeks for a 10 bolt 8.5" posi. rear end and finally found one in Illinois. It came from an 87 Grand National that was wrecked. I sand blasted it, put new bearings and seals, new brake cylinders and brake lines, new shoes and drums and had it painted black. It was a lot of work but it will be the last rear end I ever mess with. One other thing I think you might be interested in. A rear sway bar. I hit the local bone yard and pulled one out of a Pontiac Grand Prix of all cars. It looked like a typical G body rear end set up so I took a chance. All I can say is wow! If there was a way in percentages I could explain how much better it corners it would be high! It fit perfectly, a direct bolt in and of course it was sand blasted and painted.
Let me do some checking on your 12 bolt. I'm gathering it isn't in yet? If I'm not mistaken, you will need an adapter kit so to speak to get that 12 bolt to fit in properly. The 12 bolts from Chevelle's place their upper and lower control arms a little different location along with the spring platform. The 70 Chevelle was not a G body and the rear-end are not a direct bolt in. BUT, like I said I could be wrong. My neighbor (motor head like me) put a 12 bolt in his 79 Malibu (typical G Body) and had to use a kit he got from Summit that relocated a few things. I'll check with him today and get back with you.
drag racing
hey elcky...i'am driving a monte ss, but as far as i know their the same chasis... i've been spining my tire's a long time,but with the help of guys like shotgun..busdriver and sean....i now have a badassed streetcar
you can spend more money on a dependable chasis and rear end than you will on a motor...but it's worth every penny 😀
check out this video and see if this is what you want...
http://s252.photobucket.com/albums/hh4/jesse100446/?action=view¤t=wheelsup2.flv
hey elcky...i'am driving a monte ss, but as far as i know their the same chasis... i've been spining my tire's a long time,but with the help of guys like shotgun..busdriver and sean....i now have a badassed streetcar
you can spend more money on a dependable chasis and rear end than you will on a motor...but it's worth every penny 😀
check out this video and see if this is what you want...
http://s252.photobucket.com/albums/hh4/jesse100446/?action=view¤t=wheelsup2.flv
"you can spend more money on a dependable chassis and rear end than you will on a motor...but it's worth every penny"
That is the number one concept that people don't get , power is useless without control.
An Elco has the same suspension as every other gbody but it is longer in the middle.
I would NOT use the anti-hop bars at the power you have. Then don't, or should not tilt the rear. They raise the uca mount on the rear for a different instant center. My car uses the stock mounting points.
If you use aftermarket hiemed control arms, which you should, a 68/72 12 bolt will bolt in. Some use them without moving the spring perch, mine are moved.
My Cutlass has a 68 Chevelle rear. It is wider then the gbodys, but using proper offset rims take care of that.
You can go fast with 8" rim, I went 10-0h with 1.44 60 foot.
I did step up to a 10" rim over the winter, it makes the tread more square on the 30x9 slick. They were tuff to stuiff in a stock wheelwell!
You can get away with airbags, went 1.46, but she was doing "the twist". :lol:
A good anti-roll/sway bar will get you leaving straight. Do a search using my name and see the cheap one I made. Just stepped up to a HR&stuff bar. First test will be in 2 weeks.
Also, they are the most nose heavy cars out there. Anything you can do to remove weight from the front or move it to the rear , like the battery, will help.
Here is a basic combo I ran to use as a baseline.
FRONT:Stock rebuilt front suspension with poly bushings with special care to make sure everything moved free, stock sbc springs with one coil removed, drag shocks 70/30 d/s 90/10 p/s, no sway bar
REAR:Adjustible uca with sperical joint in rear ears, hiemed adjustible lowers,eibach lowering springs, QA1 single adjsutible shock set at 6 (middle setting) and p/s air bag
That is the number one concept that people don't get , power is useless without control.
An Elco has the same suspension as every other gbody but it is longer in the middle.
I would NOT use the anti-hop bars at the power you have. Then don't, or should not tilt the rear. They raise the uca mount on the rear for a different instant center. My car uses the stock mounting points.
If you use aftermarket hiemed control arms, which you should, a 68/72 12 bolt will bolt in. Some use them without moving the spring perch, mine are moved.
My Cutlass has a 68 Chevelle rear. It is wider then the gbodys, but using proper offset rims take care of that.
You can go fast with 8" rim, I went 10-0h with 1.44 60 foot.
I did step up to a 10" rim over the winter, it makes the tread more square on the 30x9 slick. They were tuff to stuiff in a stock wheelwell!
You can get away with airbags, went 1.46, but she was doing "the twist". :lol:
A good anti-roll/sway bar will get you leaving straight. Do a search using my name and see the cheap one I made. Just stepped up to a HR&stuff bar. First test will be in 2 weeks.
Also, they are the most nose heavy cars out there. Anything you can do to remove weight from the front or move it to the rear , like the battery, will help.
Here is a basic combo I ran to use as a baseline.
FRONT:Stock rebuilt front suspension with poly bushings with special care to make sure everything moved free, stock sbc springs with one coil removed, drag shocks 70/30 d/s 90/10 p/s, no sway bar
REAR:Adjustible uca with sperical joint in rear ears, hiemed adjustible lowers,eibach lowering springs, QA1 single adjsutible shock set at 6 (middle setting) and p/s air bag
Thanks guys, you have really been a great help. I have pics that I will post later once I download them from my camera.
Jesse your car looks great and sounds healthy, I viewed the video and pics. That rearend looks stout and ready for racing.
I'm very thankful for all the help, anything I can help you guys with on the GBody let me know. Jesse does your Monty have a rollcage? Have any of you all tried the tubular front uppers from U B Machine? They are a direct bolt on.
Jesse your car looks great and sounds healthy, I viewed the video and pics. That rearend looks stout and ready for racing.
I'm very thankful for all the help, anything I can help you guys with on the GBody let me know. Jesse does your Monty have a rollcage? Have any of you all tried the tubular front uppers from U B Machine? They are a direct bolt on.
This is a cut and paste from this page. http://www.maliburacing.com/tech_rearend_swaps.html
GM 12 bolt- stock specs: 8.875" ring gear, 1.625" dia. pinion shaft, 30 spline axles.
Swapping a 12 bolt into a G-body is probably the most difficult conversion to complete. The problem lies with the difference in control arm mount angles. You can force the arms to bolt up, but suspension movement will bind up severely. The housings are also different widths which can be corrected with wheel offset (also commonly called backspacing). The housing can also be cut to maintain stock width. The 12 bolt is the route I chose when building my 79 Malibu because there were no conversion 9" housings available when I began my project. I also prefer to keep my GM car ALL GM. I have to admit that the procedure I am about to explain is also one of the most expensive to do.
The first thing that needs to be done is to fabricate a jig fixture to locate the lower control arm mounts and stock pinion location. At this point you need to remove the lower control arm mounts and spring pads from the 12 bolt housing. You also need to remove the same pieces from the 7.5 10 bolt. Next, install the 12 bolt housing in the jig and also 10 bolt control arm mounts and spring pads. After double checking your measurements, you can weld everything up. Now the lower control arms (of the 12 bolt) will be at the same angle as the 10 bolt was. The upper control arms are a different story. Since they are part of the cast center section, they cannot be modified. The solution is to use an upper control arm that has spherical rod ends to allow for the mis-alignment of the angles. At this time it would be wise to add "no-hop" bars to allow adjusting of the instant center. The control arms and no-hop bars I run are available through Art Morrison Enterprises. The rod end also allows for pinion angle adjustments, which comes in handy when you need to compensate for track changes. Being able to make such adjustments will make your car be able to hook even when track conditions change. Very important in my opinion!
NOTE: Careful measurements will need to be taken to allow for proper wheel/tire fitment. The 12 bolt housing is wider than the stock 7.5 rear. I am still looking for the stock 7.5 rear width (drum-to-drum), but will provide the 12 bolts width for your comparison. The 1964-67 Chevelle housings measure 60.5 inches drum-to-drum. The 1968-72 housing measures 2 inches wider which would be 62.5 inches drum-to-drum.
My point is a 12 bolt will take some work to get it in that G body unless you buy one from Moser designed to work with that frame.
GM 12 bolt- stock specs: 8.875" ring gear, 1.625" dia. pinion shaft, 30 spline axles.
Swapping a 12 bolt into a G-body is probably the most difficult conversion to complete. The problem lies with the difference in control arm mount angles. You can force the arms to bolt up, but suspension movement will bind up severely. The housings are also different widths which can be corrected with wheel offset (also commonly called backspacing). The housing can also be cut to maintain stock width. The 12 bolt is the route I chose when building my 79 Malibu because there were no conversion 9" housings available when I began my project. I also prefer to keep my GM car ALL GM. I have to admit that the procedure I am about to explain is also one of the most expensive to do.
The first thing that needs to be done is to fabricate a jig fixture to locate the lower control arm mounts and stock pinion location. At this point you need to remove the lower control arm mounts and spring pads from the 12 bolt housing. You also need to remove the same pieces from the 7.5 10 bolt. Next, install the 12 bolt housing in the jig and also 10 bolt control arm mounts and spring pads. After double checking your measurements, you can weld everything up. Now the lower control arms (of the 12 bolt) will be at the same angle as the 10 bolt was. The upper control arms are a different story. Since they are part of the cast center section, they cannot be modified. The solution is to use an upper control arm that has spherical rod ends to allow for the mis-alignment of the angles. At this time it would be wise to add "no-hop" bars to allow adjusting of the instant center. The control arms and no-hop bars I run are available through Art Morrison Enterprises. The rod end also allows for pinion angle adjustments, which comes in handy when you need to compensate for track changes. Being able to make such adjustments will make your car be able to hook even when track conditions change. Very important in my opinion!
NOTE: Careful measurements will need to be taken to allow for proper wheel/tire fitment. The 12 bolt housing is wider than the stock 7.5 rear. I am still looking for the stock 7.5 rear width (drum-to-drum), but will provide the 12 bolts width for your comparison. The 1964-67 Chevelle housings measure 60.5 inches drum-to-drum. The 1968-72 housing measures 2 inches wider which would be 62.5 inches drum-to-drum.
My point is a 12 bolt will take some work to get it in that G body unless you buy one from Moser designed to work with that frame.
Putting a 12 bolt in is not nearly as hard as Todd's article makes it seem.
I am a member and moderator over on MR and contacted Todd about maybe updating it.
Todd's old shocks are on the back of my car! :lol: He is a great guy and shares his knowledge freely.
Anyway, we can agree that the OP is beyond stock rear suspension parts at 600/750 horse.
As far as rims go, a 15 x 8 with a 4.5 offset costs the same as a 15x8 with a 5.5 offset. No price difference, so that's a push.
As far as uca, there are a number of sources that sell 12 bolt into Gbody arms. Adjustible would be best.
Since he needs new ones anyway, also a push.
Between the gbody frame mounts and abody rear mounts ,the lca mounts end up only being off about an 1" total per side. Remember that difference is split up with 2 mounting points per side.
New lca with atleast one heim end, 2 would be better, can more then handle the difference.Again adjustible would be even better.
Another push.
He is also beyond using no-hops, they will make the hit too violent.
I know on early Abodys Elcos, no-hop will try and hammer themselves threw the bed.
I have them on my 83 Wagon and had to move the fuel line, it hit on compression. I don't have an Elco to check and am not sure if the "floor" area is the same as a wagon.
In your experience do they clear on a gbody Elcos?
Last is the spring mount. If you don't have a plasma cutter and welder, they can be removed with a sawz-all and/or cutting wheel, then ground smooth.
Roundy roundy shops sell bolt-on spring mounts for cheap. If you are worried about them being a bolt-on, after you are done, drive to a shop and have them tacked.
So the only "extra" part you are getting is the spring mount. If you can weld, it will even be cheaper.
I am a member and moderator over on MR and contacted Todd about maybe updating it.
Todd's old shocks are on the back of my car! :lol: He is a great guy and shares his knowledge freely.
Anyway, we can agree that the OP is beyond stock rear suspension parts at 600/750 horse.
As far as rims go, a 15 x 8 with a 4.5 offset costs the same as a 15x8 with a 5.5 offset. No price difference, so that's a push.
As far as uca, there are a number of sources that sell 12 bolt into Gbody arms. Adjustible would be best.
Since he needs new ones anyway, also a push.
Between the gbody frame mounts and abody rear mounts ,the lca mounts end up only being off about an 1" total per side. Remember that difference is split up with 2 mounting points per side.
New lca with atleast one heim end, 2 would be better, can more then handle the difference.Again adjustible would be even better.
Another push.
He is also beyond using no-hops, they will make the hit too violent.
I know on early Abodys Elcos, no-hop will try and hammer themselves threw the bed.
I have them on my 83 Wagon and had to move the fuel line, it hit on compression. I don't have an Elco to check and am not sure if the "floor" area is the same as a wagon.
In your experience do they clear on a gbody Elcos?
Last is the spring mount. If you don't have a plasma cutter and welder, they can be removed with a sawz-all and/or cutting wheel, then ground smooth.
Roundy roundy shops sell bolt-on spring mounts for cheap. If you are worried about them being a bolt-on, after you are done, drive to a shop and have them tacked.
So the only "extra" part you are getting is the spring mount. If you can weld, it will even be cheaper.
- Status
