eldelbrock lies
- Thread starter MD13ailey
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that's not exactly correct. if you look at the quality difference between the chinese crap and american or european stuff it explains the price difference. something made in western europe is about the same price as one made in the US. one made in eastern europe is slightly cheaper, and slightly less quality. china, has half the price and a quarter the quality, sometimes much less.
however, one country i do buy tools from is taiwan. they are cheaply priced but nearly indestructible.they're one of the exceptions.
IMO the quality does not explian the massive price difference in most products... the only things that may have large quality difference are products made of metals (ie tools) because in the cut in inital meteral quaility before refinement/final product. Other items like from china like colothing, electonics, cars (ie GM doesnt build most of the car here) and most other items manufactured outside of the us have the same quality but at a much cheaper cost becuase of the large difference in wage of the empolyeesmegaladon6 said:
really? when was the last time you saw poisonous drywall from the US? how about baby formula? have you looked at chinese tires? i haven't seen a single product from china that was of good quality. maybe you're old enough, maybe not, but i'm sure you hear from your parents about how things used to last longer. well, its true. we had a good zenith color tv that lasted 30 some years. and it had a good picture the entire time. then i got a tv that lasted 3years before i lost color. and that's just one example.
The product lifespan of a LCD/DHP or simular is shorter then the tube style TV by design... corps as a whole (us corps inculded) have gone to the way of making products that only last for a period of time so that the customer will have to replace the product or fix it, and since replacement is now more expensive then the fix the customer will opt to buy again. The us is a consumer ecomomy and with out this constant need to replinish goods then there would be no ecomomy... They figured this out 50+ years ago when advertisment of model change became the big thing. lets look at the american blender... 40 years ago it was big, heavly, bulky, and serviceable... now it is light, small and almost in-serviceable becuase it is not in the intrest of the corp to have the product last.megaladon6 said:
And to mention something simulr to baby formula we had the penut product recall... recently a US company recalled a major line of there baby stollers. Other then tools there are few US companys that make products that dont fail in the same methods as those from other nations including tv's/monitors ... you have this idea that everything that the US produces is great but realistilvy at times it better becuase of our quality control but not becuase of our skill levels as much of the comparaly overpaid work force has no more years or skill set... Increase the quality controls of the third world manufacturing to US levels and then there would truly be no reason to buy US
You can look anywhere you'd like and every thing sill tell you America is turning into a service sector society.
We will assemble, sell and service products, but will no longer be making them.
China has a median income of just nearing $3000 a year.
Mexico $7300 and so on and so fourth.
USA median income is going over $50,000 a year.
Just that series of statements alone explains the price difference.
Do these other countries have quality, well some do and some don't, but give it time and they will.
Japan when they first flooded us with product didn't and they implemented TQM and their levels have surpassed us.
Our quality at home is not all that good when we build from scratch our products and alot of our products are good and have been, specially in the electronics world due to the fact we imported great pieces from Taiwan, Korea and other sources.
Our problem is stupidity and greed.
Even product that enters the US from foreign lands gets skewed.
Some have tariffs in place to even the wage game out.
Then you have US distributors of such product marking it up for greed reasons as it gets passed onto our stores.
Middle men in hoards marking things up to as much as 100%+ of its original costs and no one really can buy direct from these import sources.
Its all about the big mighty dollar here and then add in stupidity and its all over.
Unions and there demands while holding lines on production amounts.
Local and Government jobs, while maybe not union, but I think unions got many a idea from.
Here in NY I will give one example of true waste of a dollar and you then can figure out the consequences of such a stupid action and then you can look around for others.
A teen that barley makes it out of high school, follows the who you know and blow ideal gets a job in a NYC dept of anything.
Works 20 years and then can receive 1/2 their pay with benes for the rest of their life.
So at 38 you retire, a replacement is found, he works til the first guy is 58 and he retires, then the next one 78 and again at 98.
They find a replacement for him and it keeps going as long as the first guy is alive and kicking til his death and he lives to 100.
You figure out how much that one little job that needs to be done now costs?????
UAW is doing the same such thing to the big three and the list can go on.
How did they think they were going to pay for all this in the first place???
But then when it happens they raise the taxes to those that are working to pay for this mistake and us that are working now have to ask for a raise to combat the tax increases to cover this.
Were doomed!!
We will assemble, sell and service products, but will no longer be making them.
China has a median income of just nearing $3000 a year.
Mexico $7300 and so on and so fourth.
USA median income is going over $50,000 a year.
Just that series of statements alone explains the price difference.
Do these other countries have quality, well some do and some don't, but give it time and they will.
Japan when they first flooded us with product didn't and they implemented TQM and their levels have surpassed us.
Our quality at home is not all that good when we build from scratch our products and alot of our products are good and have been, specially in the electronics world due to the fact we imported great pieces from Taiwan, Korea and other sources.
Our problem is stupidity and greed.
Even product that enters the US from foreign lands gets skewed.
Some have tariffs in place to even the wage game out.
Then you have US distributors of such product marking it up for greed reasons as it gets passed onto our stores.
Middle men in hoards marking things up to as much as 100%+ of its original costs and no one really can buy direct from these import sources.
Its all about the big mighty dollar here and then add in stupidity and its all over.
Unions and there demands while holding lines on production amounts.
Local and Government jobs, while maybe not union, but I think unions got many a idea from.
Here in NY I will give one example of true waste of a dollar and you then can figure out the consequences of such a stupid action and then you can look around for others.
A teen that barley makes it out of high school, follows the who you know and blow ideal gets a job in a NYC dept of anything.
Works 20 years and then can receive 1/2 their pay with benes for the rest of their life.
So at 38 you retire, a replacement is found, he works til the first guy is 58 and he retires, then the next one 78 and again at 98.
They find a replacement for him and it keeps going as long as the first guy is alive and kicking til his death and he lives to 100.
You figure out how much that one little job that needs to be done now costs?????
UAW is doing the same such thing to the big three and the list can go on.
How did they think they were going to pay for all this in the first place???
But then when it happens they raise the taxes to those that are working to pay for this mistake and us that are working now have to ask for a raise to combat the tax increases to cover this.
Were doomed!!
Lets give another one.
This one is greed.
We have a local company here I know very well.
Mom and Pop owned.
Devote Christians so they say.
Mom and Pop started this business to make it in America.
As it grew they stuffed away millions in all kinds of assests.
Now today Mom and Pop have retired and theirs kids and kids kids now run it.
Mom and Pop still are CEO and draw a large wage from it.
Kids and their kids also draw large wages.
Everyone is sheltering their income from taxes ( Cheating ) in loopholes only the better to do can use.
Mom and Pop bought a farm for a estate, but plant trees on it and call it a tree business even though there is no intent to sell trees to the local public. Just a token only invite friends to 2 yearly sales.
They buy trees they like to make the estate look good.
They hire local boys to do work around like cutting the massive lawn, trimming, painting and other things.
Buy vehicles for personal use, but it written off as a business expense and so on and so fourth.
Kids and their kids also have such side dealings going.
They end up sheltering 1/2- 2/3's of their incomes easily from any meaningful tax consequences.
Boy do they complain and feel its not fair that the Chinese are now dumping products in the US that they amassed their fortune from and are still trying.
Business is slowly going away to the Chinese.
But at the same time they buy raw materials from the same type sources to aid in competition.
Cut employee benefits, skimp everywhere to the point quality has gone right out the window, but people still go to this company due to the fact ROHS and DFARS is in place.
Dfars and Rohs compliancy leaves the Chinese out in the dust so now price is more and issue than quality is.
They even buy the Chinese product and use their being a USA company and a series of lies to skirt the Dfars and Rohs issues.
Did their incomes get changed due to the business downsizing???
Greed has made them hypocritical and this example can be now seen in most USA companies of any size.
This is what we are going to, the USA.
Common sense went right out the window!!! Greed and stupidity replaced it!!!!!!!
This one is greed.
We have a local company here I know very well.
Mom and Pop owned.
Devote Christians so they say.
Mom and Pop started this business to make it in America.
As it grew they stuffed away millions in all kinds of assests.
Now today Mom and Pop have retired and theirs kids and kids kids now run it.
Mom and Pop still are CEO and draw a large wage from it.
Kids and their kids also draw large wages.
Everyone is sheltering their income from taxes ( Cheating ) in loopholes only the better to do can use.
Mom and Pop bought a farm for a estate, but plant trees on it and call it a tree business even though there is no intent to sell trees to the local public. Just a token only invite friends to 2 yearly sales.
They buy trees they like to make the estate look good.
They hire local boys to do work around like cutting the massive lawn, trimming, painting and other things.
Buy vehicles for personal use, but it written off as a business expense and so on and so fourth.
Kids and their kids also have such side dealings going.
They end up sheltering 1/2- 2/3's of their incomes easily from any meaningful tax consequences.
Boy do they complain and feel its not fair that the Chinese are now dumping products in the US that they amassed their fortune from and are still trying.
Business is slowly going away to the Chinese.
But at the same time they buy raw materials from the same type sources to aid in competition.
Cut employee benefits, skimp everywhere to the point quality has gone right out the window, but people still go to this company due to the fact ROHS and DFARS is in place.
Dfars and Rohs compliancy leaves the Chinese out in the dust so now price is more and issue than quality is.
They even buy the Chinese product and use their being a USA company and a series of lies to skirt the Dfars and Rohs issues.
Did their incomes get changed due to the business downsizing???
Greed has made them hypocritical and this example can be now seen in most USA companies of any size.
This is what we are going to, the USA.
Common sense went right out the window!!! Greed and stupidity replaced it!!!!!!!
actually the tv was an old style tube one. sure building things to last a shorter time happens, but 3yrs and no color is a quality problem.
the thing you're missing about the baby formula, china would not admit to it! they know it was made wrong and that thousands of babies died, they knew about the drywall, they know about everything produced by them being crap. they don't care. here, a company may try to hide a problem and do a quick recall, but if one person dies they get completely screwed. have we imposed sanctions on china? have we put quality guidelines on them? hell, have we done anything to keep them from stealing from us? the answer is always no. you even mentioned the lack of quality control. and if there are no end checks, why would a worker (who's being pressured to make as much as possible) make sure he's doing his job right?
i'm sorry but you guys are brain washed into this whole china is a developing country and we should let them do whatever they need garbage. why do we destroy our economy with environmental laws, just to send the work to china who pollutes worse than anyone. why do we allow lousy quality products to come here, that endanger our health and safety, with no repercussions when an american (or european) country would have it's *ss penalized to the next decade.
the company i work for makes high precision aerospace bearings. a company in china makes the same ones. (we're even owned by the same company.) china uses freon and hexane and god only what other nasty *ss sh*t to clean their bearings. we use much safer chemicals, but they aren't as efficient. the cleaning process in both countries is pretty basic, and i believe the same. guess what? when we checked the cleanliness of them, the china ones were disgusting! you really want them in the jet engines on your flight? they were given the advantages and still screwed it up.
and another thing to remember about the cost difference between china and the US, the workers in the US have a much higher education level than the chinese. china doesn't care if you can do 2+2 as long as you can get tab A into slot A.
just to clear the air. i'm not saying buy american, just don't buy from china! i agree with much of what people have said (especially about the unions), but we did it to ourselves when we allowed the gov't to send everything to china.
BTW i am underpaid. i make 30k/yr to effectively run a gov't satellite project where the bearings cost more than what i make in a year. i'm an "assembler" working as an engineer! i know 30K in someplaces is good money, but this is CT. it's crap.
the thing you're missing about the baby formula, china would not admit to it! they know it was made wrong and that thousands of babies died, they knew about the drywall, they know about everything produced by them being crap. they don't care. here, a company may try to hide a problem and do a quick recall, but if one person dies they get completely screwed. have we imposed sanctions on china? have we put quality guidelines on them? hell, have we done anything to keep them from stealing from us? the answer is always no. you even mentioned the lack of quality control. and if there are no end checks, why would a worker (who's being pressured to make as much as possible) make sure he's doing his job right?
i'm sorry but you guys are brain washed into this whole china is a developing country and we should let them do whatever they need garbage. why do we destroy our economy with environmental laws, just to send the work to china who pollutes worse than anyone. why do we allow lousy quality products to come here, that endanger our health and safety, with no repercussions when an american (or european) country would have it's *ss penalized to the next decade.
the company i work for makes high precision aerospace bearings. a company in china makes the same ones. (we're even owned by the same company.) china uses freon and hexane and god only what other nasty *ss sh*t to clean their bearings. we use much safer chemicals, but they aren't as efficient. the cleaning process in both countries is pretty basic, and i believe the same. guess what? when we checked the cleanliness of them, the china ones were disgusting! you really want them in the jet engines on your flight? they were given the advantages and still screwed it up.
and another thing to remember about the cost difference between china and the US, the workers in the US have a much higher education level than the chinese. china doesn't care if you can do 2+2 as long as you can get tab A into slot A.
just to clear the air. i'm not saying buy american, just don't buy from china! i agree with much of what people have said (especially about the unions), but we did it to ourselves when we allowed the gov't to send everything to china.
BTW i am underpaid. i make 30k/yr to effectively run a gov't satellite project where the bearings cost more than what i make in a year. i'm an "assembler" working as an engineer! i know 30K in someplaces is good money, but this is CT. it's crap.
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