HELP Emissions system delete for 83 Malibu 305 sbc

Clone TIE Pilot

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Well its pretty clear the OP only wants answers that validate the path he had already chosen before even making this thread.
 
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Clone TIE Pilot

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Possessing and smoking marijuana is illegal in all 50 states under federal law, too. But if nobody's checking, nobody's landing in jail. You can mug and rob someone in Times Square in broad daylight and be right back out on the streets that evening, but you can't take off an EGR valve and block it? I doubt if many people that do it are worried much about it. I cannot prove it, but I believe that's why some states exempt a lot of older vehicles from emissions checks and similar since 1) they're a very small percentage of what's out there, and 2) I think they're too lazy or cheap to chase down the people in an '82 Citation in the local trailer park running around without a converter. Along with reducing the emission check lines.

Again, if you know what you're doing, you can rip out a CCC system and live a normal life. Q-jet, Holley, or whatever carb and ignition system you like. The ZZ4 prom only works for Chevy guys. Just a useless paperweight to me. Olds has no performance ECM mods.

I don't condone it, but I'm not stopping anyone if they want to remove the system. But if you do it, just do it right. I will always resist getting sucked into a "I partially removed my CCC system and my car won't run...what do I do?" discussion. I won't be throwing anyone a lifeline for that.

But buying marijuana prohibits a person from owning or possessing any firearms. They effectly lose their 2A rights in all 50 states which of course nobody warns prospective mary jane buyers about. Its not just the Feds that can go after you for emission tampering, your state can go after you too. https://www.carscoops.com/2022/09/n...illegal-through-facebook-marketplace-listing/

Also there is nothing pretty about having a bunch of delete plates and plugs all over the engine. Some of which do not work all that well.

Something many here do not realize is that the CCC system will only work correctly on an engine that is running correctly. An underlying engine issue will put the ECM into a tizzy. Pre CCC carbs can somewhat tolerate underlying engine issues better such as vacuum leaks, exhaust leaks, weak or dead cylinder, oil burning, etc. Most of the issues I had with the CCC system turned out to be engine issues. Downgrading to a more primitive system is not the proper fix for a faulty engine.
 
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Screwz

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I think 🤔 the best way to do this is to get older intake pre 73 or aftermarket . Same with the carburetor and some headers. Then you just have to figure out how to make it all work. Don’t forget a distributor.
 

Clone TIE Pilot

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I think 🤔 the best way to do this is to get older intake pre 73 or aftermarket . Same with the carburetor and some headers. Then you just have to figure out how to make it all work. Don’t forget a distributor.

Or just sell the El Camino and buy a pre low emission car. That way he is free to bling the engine as much as he wants.
 

69hurstolds

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But buying marijuana prohibits a person from owning or possessing any firearms. They effectly lose their 2A rights in all 50 states which of course nobody warns prospective mary jane buyers about. Its not just the Feds that can go after you for emission tampering, your state can go after you too.

I could pop the hood on a bunch of G-bodies that should have an ECM on any given day and find a bunch of law-breakers. Granted, if you do stupid things to get pulled over, then you might get more scrutiny, but even a junkyard LS swap in and of itself is technically illegal in the strict rules of the EPA concerning engine emissions. It might be ok if it's one of those $$$ E-rod kits or something. Not many people shell out the 10K or more for the E-rod kits, though. I guarantee you the majority of LS swaps leave out something needed in the emissions department. For one, most LS engined cars/trucks utilize some sort of a gas tank pressure monitoring/control system, which I'd say 99% of the G-body swappers don't even do. Yet, I've heard of no one going to jail or being fined for having an LS engine swap. For that matter, I've never heard of anyone getting fined or going to jail for taking out their ECM system.

I think this discussion, like many other subjects, tangented way off the mark. The basic question was looking for ways to delete what is there for asthetic purposes. Nothing more. I don't care if it's legal or illegal, or even the reason why. That's on the person doing it. As soon as you do something seemingly innocuous, like putting headers and duals on your CCC G-body, even if you use 2 cats, you technically broke the law anyway. Due to attrition, there isn't the volume of law-breaking G-bodies out there anymore, so perhaps they may not be worth persuing. Concerning a person hell-bent on removing their CCC system, to borrow and twist a quote from "The Terminator": They can't be bargained with, they can't be reasoned with, they don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And they absolutely will not stop…EVER, until the CCC system is dead!

That said, it is totally straight on point that the CCC system only can control what's in its wheelhouse. If you don't ever change plugs or air filter, and foul up your O2 sensors or like was mentioned earlier, vacuum leaks and wire connections bad, etc., no ECM will save your engine to magically make it run better. CCC was designed to increase efficiency and reduce emissions of an already choked out, but still in good condition, powerplant with everything working as it should. It still amazes me to this day as to how they figured out a way to make a CCC Quadrajet look almost exactly like the pre-CCC ones externally. Plus, they finally figured it out that computers could actually work on higher horsepower versions as the development continued that concentrated on efficiencies not just on fuel economy and emissions, but engine power as well. And the evolution continues.

As a btw, in my state, currently, it's still a federal and a state crime to possess and use marijuana, and federal statutes trump state anyway when they don't align. I'm not comparing the penalties, just the fact that it's a federal crime in all 50 states just like breaking those PITA EPA rules. So penalty arguments notwithstanding, the main point of it still is, unless someone in law enforcement actually CARES if you rip out your ECM, even if it is illegal, it doesn't matter unless they want to beat you with the legal stick. It's all about the $$. It's easier to make it where if you can't buy it, you may not do it. Control supply, control the outcome. Every good totalitarian governance system will tell you that.
 
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Clone TIE Pilot

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I could pop the hood on a bunch of G-bodies that should have an ECM on any given day and find a bunch of law-breakers. Granted, if you do stupid things to get pulled over, then you might get more scrutiny, but even a junkyard LS swap in and of itself is technically illegal in the strict rules of the EPA concerning engine emissions. It might be ok if it's one of those $$$ E-rod kits or something. Not many people shell out the 10K or more for the E-rod kits, though. I guarantee you the majority of LS swaps leave out something needed in the emissions department. For one, most LS engined cars/trucks utilize some sort of a gas tank pressure monitoring/control system, which I'd say 99% of the G-body swappers don't even do. Yet, I've heard of no one going to jail or being fined for having an LS engine swap. For that matter, I've never heard of anyone getting fined or going to jail for taking out their ECM system.

I think this discussion, like many other subjects, tangented way off the mark. The basic question was looking for ways to delete what is there for asthetic purposes. Nothing more. I don't care if it's legal or illegal, or even the reason why. That's on the person doing it. As soon as you do something seemingly innocuous, like putting headers and duals on your CCC G-body, even if you use 2 cats, you technically broke the law anyway. Due to attrition, there isn't the volume of law-breaking G-bodies out there anymore, so perhaps they may not be worth persuing. Concerning a person hell-bent on removing their CCC system, to borrow and twist a quote from "The Terminator": They can't be bargained with, they can't be reasoned with, they don't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And they absolutely will not stop…EVER, until the CCC system is dead!

That said, it is totally straight on point that the CCC system only can control what's in its wheelhouse. If you don't ever change plugs or air filter, and foul up your O2 sensors or like was mentioned earlier, vacuum leaks and wire connections bad, etc., no ECM will save your engine to magically make it run better. CCC was designed to increase efficiency and reduce emissions of an already choked out, but still in good condition, powerplant with everything working as it should. It still amazes me to this day as to how they figured out a way to make a CCC Quadrajet look almost exactly like the pre-CCC ones externally. Plus, they finally figured it out that computers could actually work on higher horsepower versions as the development continued that concentrated on efficiencies not just on fuel economy and emissions, but engine power as well. And the evolution continues.

As a btw, in my state, currently, it's still a federal and a state crime to possess and use marijuana, and federal statutes trump state anyway when they don't align. I'm not comparing the penalties, just the fact that it's a federal crime in all 50 states just like breaking those PITA EPA rules. So penalty arguments notwithstanding, the main point of it still is, unless someone in law enforcement actually CARES if you rip out your ECM, even if it is illegal, it doesn't matter unless they want to beat you with the legal stick. It's all about the $$. It's easier to make it where if you can't buy it, you may not do it. Control supply, control the outcome. Every good totalitarian governance system will tell you that.

Just because something is popular or common doesn't make it correct. That is textbook bandwagon fallacy.
In Cali they failed plenty of LS swaps for not having their complete emission systems swapped over. One guy even had to rip out his junkyard LS swap and install a Erod to get his car to pass. HP and especially modern HP doesn't come cheap. Hotrodding is a hobby for whales (big spenders), with deep pockets. Granted Cali is worstcase scenario, hopefully the rest of the country won't crack down thart much. But if it does happen there probably will be a big G body influx at the junkyards. Probably better not sell a emissions deleted car either, besides the govt going after you like in the link, the buyer can also sue to force you to pay to fix the car back to legal specs. I would not be surprised if there are some glowies on this site either. Many car forums forbid discussions of emissions deletes. Even MCSS.com tries to point people away from emission tampering.

The clean air act signed by Bush senior outlaws converting cars to dual exhaust if the model never had it as a factory option. You can legally convert a Crown Vic to dual exhaust as it was a Ford factory offered option for them, G bodies not so much, thanks GM. The Clean Air Act also allows citizens to sue over tampered emissions which is what happened with the Diesel Brothers. Moreover, the EPA's main concern is the industry and businesses, not so much indivduals but they do have snitch phone numbers and email addresses.


My main point still stands that ripping out emissions for a street car is stupid. Deleting emissions for cosmetics is a really poor reason to put it bluntly. Many of the vacuum hoses are part of the Evap system. Rip that out you have to convert to open venting which allows moisture into the gas tank promoting sludge and rust buildup along with phase separation with today's crappy gas. In turn your fuel system will foul up quickly but who cares as long as it looks perty. Most of those cars with the perty engine bays you see at shows are garage queens that are trailered to shows. Engines are not supposed to be pretty, they become externally grungy with use. Engines don't stay clean and shiny with frequent use. In short, there are tons of cons with deleting emissions, its not all sunshine like some here try to pretend it is.

So OP, do you want a car that runs right or a perty engine bay?
 
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69hurstolds

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I guess we all have opinions on the subject. I'm a proponent of using and fixing a CCC system when able to do so. Rhetorically speaking, my opinion stands that I won't get sucked into a "half-azz" ripout discussion because if you don't understand what you're doing while you're un-doing the stuff. And if you don't understand it, then why are you doing it to begin with? I understand for race car conversions, and I understand if you want to run an old school big block in your G or whatever. Sometimes mods need to be done to get to your goal. But I'll never police what you do with your cars, whatever reason you have to do with it. I'm more libertarian when it comes to you going ahead and doing with you and yours as long as you leave me and mine alone. I may, or may not, think whatever you're doing with your car is stupid. But I won't stand in your way if you want to go ahead and do it. You're the one responsible for your outcomes.
 
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Wageslave

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Dumb question but:

Have you considered an engine cover? I know they are popular in marine applications to clean up the engine bay. With a low profile air cleaner they can look pretty slick. Something like this but unbranded, perhaps.

001.jpg


Or this:

 
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565bbchevy

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If it were me and I had a bone stock engine (never happen) I would probably just clean up the engine bay and paint what needs to be painted.
I would probably get new washer and overflow tanks from Mikes Montes and replace the hoses and vacuum lines with new ones and if I want a little color maybe a red distributor cap and some MSD wires.
And later if you want to install a built SBC install your aluminum intake, Holley carb, headers etc then and at that time delete all of you emission stuff.
 
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abbey castro

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The original question has been been answered. His mind has been made to remove everything except 8 spark wire and battery cables!
There are 3 truths:
1. The world is round
2. 2+2=4
3. I can't say or I'll get thrown out of the Forum!
 
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