HELP Emissions system delete for 83 Malibu 305 sbc

[Clone TIE Pilot]

This is the information, he would benefit from if he is to keep CCC.

Is there any ZZ4 on eBay for a reasonable cost also? That would be worth a look 😎🤘🤘🤘

There is a guy on MCSS.com named Bitflipper who burns ZZ4 clone chips. Remember you need a 87 or 88 ECM to be able to use a ZZ4 chip.
http://www.montecarloss.com/community/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1033971&page=1

Unlike a normal carb, the CCC system can compenstate for changes in barometric pressure.

 

[g0thiac]

Best answer is get a 350 core and build it to the specifications you want..

... But the original post was about removing emissions?

May I ask how is pulling an already working engine the best answer?

I mean if he wants to get more HP I wouldn't argue there- but I mean he literally asked, for a guide on removing that equipment so his engine bay looks cleaner.

An engine swap, might be another casual 4 hour job for you guys. But for others, it could be a 2 week project, and not as simple for their budget.

 

[SS_Malibu]

I would remove the emissions stuff, put on an edelbrock performer intake, holley carb, Mallory HEI and dial in timing and carb.

 

[69hurstolds]

That's why, I don't understand this.

People on this forum will encourage others to keep CCC, but no one is willing to explain to him or anyone else, how to do that and remove emissions.

So it's a double standard, we want to not do a half *ss job- but is that not exactly what we are telling him, by throwing in an aftermarket carb and distributor?

Teach a man to fish.

Because I tell you If I had someone help me learn, that system so I knew the working of it? Even as a millennial, who wouldn't have much practical use of that information- I still would be VERY grateful.

That's certainly your opinion. Everyone has one. If you decide to go fishing, then you also remember to bring your own bait and tackle. It's not about shunning anyone, it's about people getting to use their discretion on what issues to take on and which ones to pass on. I, personally, don't get paid enough to take on someone else's headaches when it comes to removing a CCC system. It's already been stated on what needs to be basically done to get the car running again. If curious, ask more and follow-up questions. I do not own, nor plan to own, a crystal ball.

If you're going hacking without doing any homework, then I'm choosing not to go on that ride. Simple as that. I don't have, and never expect to have, experience tearing out CCC systems. But I do know what it takes to bypass and make inoperable the CCC on an Olds V8. I find an issue, isolate, then I fix or adjust, then I move on. Different engines have different layouts and routings, so there's no general one-size fits all when it comes to removing an ECM and associated equipment. Navigate the spaghetti. When you start tearing into stuff like this, you learn so much more about your particular car.

Gearheads who are constantly wrenching on cars aren't usually the issue when it comes to having an out of tune engine because they're usually keeping their junk in good shape. It's ones that don't bother to do anything, rack up 80K miles on their car with minimal maintenance, then want to get rid of the "power robbing" computer system because they're only getting 10 mpg or something. This is where the sword is double edged. You need to understand how the system works to 1) effectively remove the system without killing driveability, and 2) be able to diagnose and repair the failed component(s). Every car needs some sort of maintenance, and for some reason, CCC cars of the 80s didn't get much love.

More and more the local garages have OBD1 knowledge that can fit in a shot glass. Carburetor? They run and hide under their workbench.

I would guess without any tweaks to a stock CCC system, almost half of unexpected codes are thrown due to vacuum leaks and wiring issues/broken wires/dirty connections. Then, sometimes the sensors themselves fail, such as ignition modules, temp and O2 sensors, etc. Other times, it's someone who doesn't know how to adjust stuff correctly. For example, you don't get your voltages set correctly on a TPS, you're potentially screwing things up because the ECM "sees" the throttle position as somewhere it isn't and makes adjustments based on what it knows. So the feedback signal might not be within the steady-state parameter so the ECM sends out a signal to adjust something such as fuel trim or timing when it probably shouldn't. Forever. Until the adjustment gets fixed. This is why the CEL is there- to alert the driver to a potential issue and the codes along with the troubleshooting charts in the CSM merely are the "start here" arrows to help you diagnose the issue.

 

[Bonnewagon]

^^^^^^THIS^^^^^^

 

[g0thiac]

That's certainly your opinion. Everyone has one. If you decide to go fishing, then you also remember to bring your own bait and tackle. It's not about shunning anyone, it's about people getting to use their discretion on what issues to take on and which ones to pass on. I, personally, don't get paid enough to take on someone else's headaches when it comes to removing a CCC system. It's already been stated on what needs to be basically done to get the car running again. If curious, ask more and follow-up questions. I do not own, nor plan to own, a crystal ball.

Ok. How is what I am saying an opinion?

Nobody is being paid here to speak either. You do it, because you aren't a hollow human being, and care about the classic car community, period. If you want to make $ off it, I'm sure you know better than me to flip and fix someone elses ride.


As I am literally, just going off peoples own words here. And no....I am not trying to shun anyone, I am trying to get these 3 basic questions, STILL answered.

1. If OP, is talking emissions removal, why are we now telling him to remove his ENGINE. This kinds of off topic, crap happened in Tynan's thread and honestly, as annoying as he was?

I find it hilarious, how we will give all our motivations for pages and multiple topics, to help someone who didn't even care, to help stay on task.

But then look here, we went from one side of the big picture, to the other in seconds- same thing ironically shunned him for- which was not listening, and doing all this extra stuff?


Well what do you expect, then from OP if he goes in asking about emissions removal, and everyone goes "DROP IN A 350" 🤦‍♀️😂😂😂


2. Again, it's not an opinion that everyone does not have access to an lift, engine hoist or tools.

Start remembering, people have less privilege than yourself. When someone, asks you for advice on something, he might be asking it specifically- because he might not be able to afford, what you or I can.

If you're going hacking without doing any homework, then I'm choosing not to go on that ride. Simple as that.

3. Exactly!!!!!!

So if you and others feel that, why are we not pushing him in that direction, first before telling him to pull distributors, carburetors and swapping engines?!

I have literally, been trying to push that for 3 pages, given how members here have recommended, time and time again on keeping CCC in the past- and everyone keeps ignoring that.

But, at the end of the day, it is OP's decision.

All I know is, from a perspective of empathy for others- if this was my introduction to this forum I would, have seen it in a... much different way 🤦‍♀️😂😂😂

 

[ck80]

Ok. How is what I am saying an opinion?

Nobody is being paid here to speak either. You do it, because you aren't a hollow human being, and care about the classic car community, period. If you want to make $ off it, I'm sure you know better than me to flip and fix someone elses ride.


As I am literally, just going off peoples own words here. And no....I am not trying to shun anyone, I am trying to get these 3 basic questions, STILL answered.

1. If OP, is talking emissions removal, why are we now telling him to remove his ENGINE. This kinds of off topic, crap happened in Tynan's thread and honestly, as annoying as he was?

I find it hilarious, how we will give all our motivations for pages and multiple topics, to help someone who didn't even care, to help stay on task.

But then look here, we went from one side of the big picture, to the other in seconds- same thing ironically shunned him for- which was not listening, and doing all this extra stuff?


Well what do you expect, then from OP if he goes in asking about emissions removal, and everyone goes "DROP IN A 350" 🤦‍♀️😂😂😂


2. Again, it's not an opinion that everyone does not have access to an lift, engine hoist or tools.

Start remembering, people have less privilege than yourself. When someone, asks you for advice on something, he might be asking it specifically- because he might not be able to afford, what you or I can.




3. Exactly!!!!!!

So if you and others feel that, why are we not pushing him in that direction, first before telling him to pull distributors, carburetors and swapping engines?!

I have literally, been trying to push that for 3 pages, given how members here have recommended, time and time again on keeping CCC in the past- and everyone keeps ignoring that.

But, at the end of the day, it is OP's decision.

All I know is, from a perspective of empathy for others- if this was my introduction to this forum I would, have seen it in a... much different way 🤦‍♀️😂😂😂

No offense intended but I hate seeing all this throwing around of 'privilege' and next we're going to hear about 'equity'.... BLEGH. This is the car hobby. It can be expensive. You need to do things the RIGHT way.

If I were tying to build an addition, and people were telling me I needed a foundation first, I wouldn't go crying about 'privilege' because they have access to excavators, and welders for rear, and pumps for concrete. I'd know there were steps to do things right so stuff doesn't crash down around me and leave me with a massive mess.

We've got someone here with what we assume to be a nominally well running car. They are asking about a cosmetic 'upgrade' for appearance purposes only, without understanding what is really involved and the implications.

You can rent a hoist. Or you can pony up $100 for a used one. Or buy new, harbor freight sells them $199. Save up. Do a payment plan. Nothing about modifying cars is that cheap. You make a plan, lay your groundwork, then either scrounge or pay up. A modification of the 'pick 2' adage when it comes to car projects is it takes time, money, or ability &knowledge... pick 2. A guy with lots of money and time can pay shops to build anything he wants and wait for orders. A knowledgeable person with money can do a ton themselves quickly. Someone with high abilities can take time and create.... the sky is the limit. Go look in Donovan's thread, imagine what he could to to a 'I'm gonna keep it stock' in a weekend.

I didn't see any particular attacking or bad wording in the thread. Maybe it was cleaned up. But if the right answer to a question is, to quote some dude from Miami, 'stop, collaborate, and listen' then sometimes that's what you do

 

[g0thiac]

No offense intended but I hate seeing all this throwing around of 'privilege' and next we're going to hear about 'equity'.... BLEGH. This is the car hobby. It can be expensive. You need to do things the RIGHT way.

Well that's just too bad, because that is the world we live in. It is about equity.

Yeah, maybe someone can't have the LS swap, or the fastest SBC- but if you think that should, then disqualify someone, or even discourage them in the slightest?

Well then with all due respect, you are not somebody I would want to associate with, in this community.

Because, yeah no kidding, it is an expensive hobby- which is why I take my time now that I have a daily driver, that isn't also a project as well.

 

[ck80]

Well that's just too bad, because that is the world we live in. It is about equity.

Yeah, maybe someone can't have the LS swap, or the fastest SBC- but if you think that should, then disqualify someone, or even discourage them in the slightest?

Well then with all due respect, you are not somebody I would want to associate with, in this community.

Because, yeah no kidding, it is an expensive hobby- which is why I take my time now that I have a daily driver, that isn't also a project as well.

So what youre saying is, to each according to his needs, from each according to his abilities?

Did I get that correct?

We've talked many time about cars, much advice or input given. And now you claim I'm all of a sudden someone you'd never associate with because I disbelieve in the 'equity' farce. That's too bad, and very closed minded.

 

[g0thiac]

We've got someone here with what we assume to be a nominally well running car. They are asking about a cosmetic 'upgrade' for appearance purposes only, without understanding what is really involved and the implications.

You can rent a hoist. Or you can pony up $100 for a used one. Or buy new, harbor freight sells them $199. Save up. Do a payment plan. Nothing about modifying cars is that cheap. You make a plan, lay your groundwork, then either scrounge or pay up. A modification of the 'pick 2' adage when it comes to car projects is it takes time, money, or ability &knowledge... pick 2. A guy with lots of money and time can pay shops to build anything he wants and wait for orders. A knowledgeable person with money can do a ton themselves quickly. Someone with high abilities can take time and create.... the sky is the limit. Go look in Donovan's thread, imagine what he could to to a 'I'm gonna keep it stock' in a weekend.

I didn't see any particular attacking or bad wording in the thread. Maybe it was cleaned up. But if the right answer to a question is, to quote some dude from Miami, 'stop, collaborate, and listen' then sometimes that's what you do

All what you are saying, I agree with.

But again, he's asking for specific information and not everyone lives near a parts store that rents out stuff.

That said my point is, if he wants to upgrade his engine. Then it makes sense to tell him, to go in that direction.

But if he is willing to learn how to work on the CCC, and have someone teach him the basics so he can use that, and have it work for HIS situation?

Then that would go along with the collaborate and listen idea, but ultimately, yeah- he will have to decide what is best for him 😎💪