Engine Advice Needed

[86Cutlass383SR]

I picked up my engine from my engine builder today. 385 SBC. 4.040 x 3.75 2pc rms 4 bolt main. AFR 190 heads. Intended usage: daily-driven hi-performance street. Idle - 6000 rpm.

I told the builder I wanted a quench ht somewhere around .040 - .045. With the .041" Felpro 1003 gasket and a zero deck I would've ended up with a .041" quench. Instead of zero decking he decked my block just enough to straighten it out. Ended up with a piston .017" down the hole. I spoke to him after he told me this and he said he would go ahead and zero deck the block.

I thought my heads were 66cc but he cc'ed the heads and they came out to 64cc so he decided (without consulting me!) to not zero deck the block "cause my compression would've been too high".

I specifically picked a certain piston just for this combo. I chose a 12cc "D" dished piston to keep the quench area flat and to keep my compression in the 10-1 area with this .040" - .045" quench.

So, I ended up with a piston .017" (in the hole), a .041" gasket, and a 12cc dished piston with 64cc heads. My quench area now figures to .058".

To top it all off, after he cleaned the block and was boring it, he said he found a hair-line crack. He never told me this until after I'd paid him and had the engine loaded up! He did sleeve the block "so it will be okay". Had I known about it before he took it on his own to sleeve my block, I'd probably just found a 400 block and got differant pistons and crank and built a 400 based engine.

I don't have the money to go thru this engine again. I scrounged all the cash I could get to get this done this time.

What would you guys do?

1) Find another shop, pull the engine back down, and have the block re-decked?

2) Find a 400 block, buy new pistons and crank, and build a new shortblock? This isn't really financially feasable for me.

3) Pull the heads and intake and install a thinner head gasket? Is a copper gasket okay for 10-1 alum head street use? I also found a Cometic multi-layer steel gasket at .030" which would give me .047 quench.

4) Run it as is and live with what I have.

He also never checked my piston to valve clearance like I asked him to do. I'm running a 230*/236* .540"/.534" 113* lsa cam (Comp 280 XFI hyd roller retro-fit) with the above mentioned 12cc "D" dished pistons and 1.5 roller rockers (instead of the recommended 1.6). Think my P-V clearance is okay? Safe enough to move up to 1.6 at a later date? At least he gave me a 1 yr warranty on his work. Would the P-V clearance still be okay with the thinner .030" gasket? I know it needs to be measured to make sure but...

If my calculations are correct, with my given combo I should have about 9.88 - 1 cr and a DCR of 8.275 with a .058" quench. According to CamQuest my IVC @ .050" is 44*. With the added 15* some programs ask for this would be 59*. With the .030" gasket my new numbers would be 10.13 - 1 and DCR of 8.483 with a .047" quench. I am running EFI with spark control in case the DCR seems a bit too high.

I need some advice ... I'm not taking this motor back to him. Nor, will I EVER go back to him or give him a good recommendation.

What would you guys do? I need some good, solid advice. If I ever do another engine, I WILL be building it myself. I just had him do it this time because he did give me a 1 yr warranty. But, he didn't build *my* engine, he built my engine *his* way.

Thanks for any advice given...

 

[pontiacgp]

If you have it in writing what the shop was supposed to do then I'd be looking at getting a quote from another shop to do what is needed so you have the engine you first ordered and sue the first shop for the money it's going to cost if he doesn't want to pay willingly

 

[86Cutlass383SR]

He wrote down everything I wanted him to do. Maybe he couldn't read his own writing...I dunno. But of course, he has that copy, I don't.

 

[megaladon6]

i'd definitely have him fix or pay to fix the issues your quench area is far too large to be effective. i seem to remember that 32-38 is best with low 40's being sufficient. i have my pistons .015 in the hole and a .017 carbon graphite head gasket. i looked at copper but don't trust it for everyday use. BTW with EFI you don't have to worry about your compression so much. even 11:1 will be fine with pump gas.
your piston clearance should be fine. my engine is similar and has plenty of clearance.

 

[86Cutlass383SR]

I wanted to build this engine on the *safe side* and increase my quench a bit. I'd heard some people running into problems with carbon build-up years down the road so I took a few thousandth for that. This being a street motor and planning on road-tripping for several hudred miles, I wanted to keep my CR a bit lower for that barch of bad/lower octane gas I may run into. I know a lot of the guys on thirdgen.org are running close to 11-1 but I'd rather play it on the safe side. Murphy is on a first name basis with me if you know what I mean...

Which head gasket you using? I may just swap to that one.

 

[megaladon6]

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SCE-511101/
i think these are what i used, it's been awhile btw i meant the .058 is way too big, not the .040-.045

 

[Blake442]

I'd be furious, but at least he gave you a warranty...

Now you just gotta get the car together quick so the warranty doesn't expire before it's up and running!

 

[phantom]

Find a differant shop he should consult you before doing work like that. The 400 would have been a better build. But hell don't piss him off he may do great work and everything will turn out right. In the future you might need him to do some more work.

 

[86Cutlass383SR]

Yeah, Blake, I got a 1 year warranty so hopefully I can get it running and driveable quick enough to get *some* of that warranty 😳 In the beginning of my build I had a car waiting on a motor. Now I have a motor waiting on a car... :? Mother Nature hates me LOL

Other than any possible warranty issues, I won't go back to him. He may have done good work (I sure HOPE he did!) but when you are paying someone to do agreed upon work, don't change plans mid-stream without consulting the person paying! Lesson learned. If I ever do get to build another motor for this car it will be an LS? of some kind. Other than the machine work, guess who'll be doing the assembly...ME! Only reason I didn't this time is I had some major money (for MY wallet at least) tied up in this engine and was running clearances a lot tighter than I have ever run. Tighter quench and higher valve lift so the P-V clearance was a possible issue. I'm just a shade-tree mechanic and didn't have a bunch of fancy measuring tools so when he said he'd assemble and give me a 1 year warrantry for $500, I jumped on it. Had I known I wasn't going to get the engine I researched out, and he agreed it was a good solid build, I'd had done it myself. Next time I'll beg, borrow or...well I won't steal the needed tools but I'll get em somewhere's. I'll do it myself.

 

[dogsht]

For how you are planning on useing the car probably choice 4. But if you have the time and funds choice 3 with the Cometic gasket can be a better choice.