Front Upper Control arm hardware

[pontiacgp]

if you open this picture you'll see how the bracket is sitting on an angle...if you take a picture of yours from the top view you should notice the difference...

photos/displayimage.php?album=toprated&cat=0&pos=353

 

[neller840]

Does anyone know what the serrated teeth in the washer, and the bushings are designed to do..?? I can't find anything in my shop manual...

 

[kornball426]

Sorry but to jump on the suspension angles bandwagon, I have a question PontiacGP... Isn't the other reason the front geometry is better on the 2nd gen F-bodies because the upper and lower control arm mounts on the frame are closer to one another, and the steering knuckle is bigger... I was reading about suspension setups they say it creates a better instant center and roll center than the "metric" or G-body front end. Not anywhere near ideal, but better if you're stuck with a stock suspension and can't modify it... The street stock guys use steering knuckles off of I think it's early 70's impala's or Caprices to try to improve it further, because they're like 40mm longer from end to end or something like that.

 

[pontiacgp]

in the f body 2nd gen the uppers are equal length so the camber is more consistent though a cycle than with a metric with it's unequal length. The big difference between the F body 2nd gen front clip is the front suspension is about 2" closer the the end of the front horns and the engine sits about 1.5" lower. Just with that the weigh bias front and rear is greatly improved over the metric and with the engine sitting lower and that alone give the f body a much better geometry in the front. The stock roll center of an 2nd gen f body is much better than in the metric. As for the control arms being closer together the splindle on the F body is tall than the metric. The F body has more suspension travel as the metric has a hump on the lower which prevents running the metric any lower than with a 6" chassis height. We can easily run the f body with a 5" clearance. We ran a metric on a 3/8 mile track and we did well and we ever tried the soft spring with large bar set up and it worked good. The metric on a 1/2 mile track doesn't work tho. Even with a 3 link in the back unless you can change the control arm locations in the front and run nova lowers to widen the stance of the ball joints up front you won't be competitive. With the 4 link set up it set up to bind and it moves too much going around corners. A leaf spring set up is much more stable than the metric is even with upgrades. Most tracks do not allow you to change the location of the front mounts. It gets alot more technical than that but this some of the basic differences between the two. The 2nd gen f body clip was run on cars all the way up to the limited late models recently and some guys running metrics would swap out the front clip for an f body or a nova or chevelle clip. The reason why the metric was popular for racing it is the last full frame car that has an acceptable wheelbase for racing and it's plentiful but the suspension set up on the car is lacking.

 

[kornball426]

Yeah I also heard that, that the 4 link in G-bodies is less than optimal because... And excuse my ignorance in the terminology (but sort of like the rake and trail on a motorcycle, that I understand haha) the point in space where the angles of the upper and lower links would converge is like 10 feet behind the car. And to get it to work better you need to either lower the mounting point of your upper links on the center section of the housing, or raise where the upper links mount to the frame to bring the whatever you call it, place where the two angles converge to under the car and it will plant and corner better. Otherwise it'll be tight on entry loose on exit... Or maybe it's the other way around... But either way bad and unpredictable.

Of course this is just stuff that I read in magazines and online I have no first hand experience... But I'd like to hear what you have to say about it. I'd like to get into street (I mean dirt stocks sorry) stocks (in a year or two) and I'd probably go with a G-body as 2nd gen F-bodies are much more expensive than they used to be and parts aren't that common in junk yards at least around me.

Maybe I should make a new thread though, as I'm feeling like this is a bit hijacker-ish. Sorry to the OP.

 

[pontiacgp]

Parts are hard to find for f bodies and the prices some people are asking for junk is ridiculous, even the metrics are hard to find. The five star bodies for the metrics aren't too expensive than they save alot of time on the build. Don't worry about your terminology and setting up a car is a hit and miss until you get it close then it's down to the tweaking. Then you show up the next week with the good set up and the car is working like junk, there's no end to it. Learn to read the three areas of tire temp and that will tell you how the car is working.

 

[kornball426]

Can you really tell that much from tire temp? I mean on a dirt car that's limited to an unmodified 8 inch DOT approved tire?

 

[pontiacgp]

not on dirt...I have only raced asphalt so tire temps are usefull, on dirt I have no idea what set ups work

 

[kornball426]

Ahh gotcha... Yeah there's nothing but dirt tracks that are within a reasonable driving distance of where I live that run classes that a beginner that isn't rich could afford to play in.

Anyways... Cool stuff. Looks like such a blast... door to door swapping paint and sliding around on the dirt... Also probably very scarey the first few times you're out there. :lol:

 

[pontiacgp]

your first year out there you'll have yellow taper on you back bumper..most guys will give rookies a fare shake and help you learn the ropes. You'll always want to beat the competition but you have to first make sure there are competitors out there so it's always great to see someone new out there