Fuel Injected Regal ...

[RITTER]

Alright, my dream for my Regal is to do a complete fuel injection swap into it. I came across an H2 6.0L VORTEC engine complete with wiring harness and accessories and I was wondering if anyone's used one of these engines for a street rod. Pros? Cons? experience with this engine? thanks

 

[monte olrac]

well I have never used that engine, But the question you ask yourself is what do you plan on doing with your car. Because a stock fuel injection system is designed to work with stock componets and if you don't want to send of your ECM to get recalibrated for performance parts then you are pretty much stuck with what you have. and performance parts for that motoe isn't going to be cheap either. But if you have the money to burn you can do pretty much anything with it, you should check out some of the truck forums to see what those guys are doing with that motor.

 

[treed_cutlass]

a 6.0L from a Hummer H2? That's a Gen III motor... ie. the cast iron version(aluminum heads) of an LS1.
Yes, a tune would be necessary to get optimum performance from adding performance parts, but I believe that motor is rated around 300 HP to begin with...

It should be noted that I have no actual experience with Gen III motors, and all I have is research that I have done, since I am planning a swap like this in the future.

AFAIK, there are several issues that you need to take care of to get this motor into your car:
Wiring/ECM
Motor Mounts
Headers/exhaust
Fuel system
Oil pan
A/C interference with frame (if you run a/c you may have to notch your frame, or relocate the A/C pump)
Transmission ( i would recommend getting the trans with the engine, less adapting).
Speedometer (solved with an electronic speedo).

One of the best threads on Gen III (LS based) motors into a g-body is this one (it's even an LQ4, which I believe is the same motor from the H2 you were looking at):
http://www.maliburacing.com/forum/viewt ... 29&t=73834

Here's one with an actual LS1:
http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45684

I would highly recommend doing a lot of research into this, but there are lots of people out there doing it.
As far as parts go... well the LQ4 was put into umpteen # of trucks and SUVs from 1999 to 2004, and the 4.8L and 5.3L are the smaller displacement versions of it, also Gen III.

I know, i know, it's wikipedia... but it gives a pretty good breakdown on the different RPOs and info.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Vortec_engine

The Gen III v8 is what you want to look at, the Gen IV is similar, but has options like active fuel management, VVT etc... I haven't done enough digging on the Gen IV to know exactly what is different.

 

[RITTER]

well I have never used that engine, But the question you ask yourself is what do you plan on doing with your car. Because a stock fuel injection system is designed to work with stock componets and if you don't want to send of your ECM to get recalibrated for performance parts then you are pretty much stuck with what you have. and performance parts for that motoe isn't going to be cheap either. But if you have the money to burn you can do pretty much anything with it, you should check out some of the truck forums to see what those guys are doing with that motor.

I don't plan on doing any serious mods to the engine. It is rated at 325hp completely stock. I am just wanting a good strong reliable 300hp fuel injected daily driver/show car. I am not really looking to build a drag car or anything.

a 6.0L from a Hummer H2? That's a Gen III motor... ie. the cast iron version(aluminum heads) of an LS1.
Yes, a tune would be necessary to get optimum performance from adding performance parts, but I believe that motor is rated around 300 HP to begin with...

It should be noted that I have no actual experience with Gen III motors, and all I have is research that I have done, since I am planning a swap like this in the future.

AFAIK, there are several issues that you need to take care of to get this motor into your car:
Wiring/ECM
Motor Mounts
Headers/exhaust
Fuel system
Oil pan
A/C interference with frame (if you run a/c you may have to notch your frame, or relocate the A/C pump)
Transmission ( i would recommend getting the trans with the engine, less adapting).
Speedometer (solved with an electronic speedo).

AFAIK ???
ECM and wiring harness will be included with the engine
I do believe that the stock exhaust manifolds will work
I won't be running A/C
The transmission that he has a for a 4x4 driveline, so I will have to find a transmission
The fuel system has definitely been my biggest concern
I was thinking that they use the same mounts as a standard SBC ?
Does AUTOMETER sell an electronic speedometer?

Thanks for all your input so far guys!

 

[jrm81bu]

Standard small block mounts won't work. Check these guys out. http://www.brphotrods.com/

 

[custom442]

Alright, my dream for my Regal is to do a complete fuel injection swap into it. I came across an H2 6.0L VORTEC engine complete with wiring harness and accessories and I was wondering if anyone's used one of these engines for a street rod. Pros? Cons? experience with this engine? thanks

This is one of the most popular swaps in the truck community. Go on a silverado site and say anything about 'adding hp' to any engine, and you'll have two responses from people saying to swap for a 6.0L. It's like they don't know anything else.

It's a good engine, makes plenty of torque, you can find em for cheap or low price. But what eats your lunch is the harnesses/tuning/computer. And that's for cars/trucks already equipped with an LS type engine.

So you could imagine how expensive it could get for an old regal. It'd be something different, I'd like to see pictures if you go through with it. If you're doing this yourself and this is your first time with fuel injection... not the best idea. If you've worked with it before, go for it.

IMO, build a SBC first, get everything else on the car in order and working, then bolt on an aftermarket fuel injection kit. There's multiple reasons why I'd do this, you could probably think of about half a dozen off the top of your head. (one being the cost of parts for the 6.0L)

 

[MD13ailey]

my dream has always been to use the camaro or corvetter TPI injection and put twin turbos on it but yea injection is better if you can afford to have it tuned after you make every little change of do it yourself. the quick fuel carburators are sure lookin good to me 😀

 

[treed_cutlass]

AFAIK ???
ECM and wiring harness will be included with the engine
I do believe that the stock exhaust manifolds will work
I won't be running A/C
The transmission that he has a for a 4x4 driveline, so I will have to find a transmission
The fuel system has definitely been my biggest concern
I was thinking that they use the same mounts as a standard SBC ?
Does AUTOMETER sell an electronic speedometer?

Thanks for all your input so far guys!

AFAIK = As Far As I Know... haha, sorry :lol:

Ok, the ECM and wiring are included, which is awesome... but you may want to get your harness worked over, unless your into doing that yourself. The two names I keep hearing are speartech (http://www.speartech.com) and wait4me performance (http://www.wait4meperformance.com). So get on their websites and check out the prices, and I'm assuming the prices will vary depending on how much you need done. Either that or get on LS1tech.com and start looking for a pinout for your harness and figure it out yourself, but unless you have the programs and know-how you will need to send out your ECM for anything you want to get deleted or modified.
A.I.R., EGR, Rear O2 sensors, VATS, cooling fan turn-on temp, emissions stuff etc... the more you delete the more it costs you (probably). But get in touch with one of those guys and get a quote.

Hopefully the exhaust manifolds will work, but I have heard that TRUCK manifolds hit the frame in g-bodies... dunno if the hummer uses anything different from an actual truck though? Hopefully they'll work. If not, pick up some F-body manifolds, apparently they work without a hassle.

No A/C? Great. One less thing to deal with. I guess you'll need a shorter belt though? I'm not sure how this will affect your pulley/tensioner system. Have a look at that, shouldn't be too hard to figure out.

The transmission was always something I wondered about... so I guess the transmissions directly bolt onto the transfer case then? What year of motor is this? I've seen pictures of earlier motors ('99-'00) with a longer crank flange that won't work with a car transmission. See this post on ls1tech:
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/generatio ... shaft.html

The fuel system... is probably the easiest part. If you want to go with an in-tank pump, get a 4.3L TBI monte carlo gas tank, and plumb up your lines. Not sure if you need a fuel pressure regulator with this setup or not?

If you want to go external, sump your tank and run an external electric fuel pump like a Walbro GSL392, or a Bosch 044, or similar, and grab a fuel pressure regulator/filter from a '99-'04 Corvette (AC Delco# GF822. Napa# 3737). If the fuel rails have a return, I believe you can cap it off, that way your pump is just circulating back into the tank through the 'vette FPR, unless pressure drops in the fuel rail. This minimizes heat soak into your fuel since you aren't circulating fuel through the hot engine compartment all the time. These #s will adapt the corvette FPR quick connect fittings to hose barbs. Remember to use fuel INJECTION hose on the pressure side of the pump (ie. inlet/outlet of the FPR). I see no reason why you couldn't use regular low pressure fuel hose on return of the FPR.
Dorman 800-120(return-5/16 hose barb)
Dorman 800-121(inlet-3/8" hose barb)
Dorman 800-155(outlet-3/8 OD tube 12" long)

Personally I would just use a very short piece of fuel injection hose to go from the dorman adapters to a hardline, since that fuel injection hose is kinda expensive, and most race tracks like to see under 12" of rubber hose on a fuel system.

Dorman also sells plastic line, and quick connect fittings to work with it, and Russel sells quick connect to AN adapters too.
Google "Corvette FPR", you'll find lots of info. Here's a thread to get your started:
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/conversio ... r-reg.html
Pic of the corvette FPR and it's quick connect fittings, in this case adapted to AN fittings, and a plumbing diagram:
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/11525505-post64.html

The Generation III engines don't use the same mounts as the the SBC. You'll need to either make an adapter plate or totally custom mount yourself, or buy some. CarShopInc sells some that adapt the Gen III engine to regular SBC mounts, but so do many other companies.
http://carshop.carshopinc.com/product_i ... 59/C/S2349

One thing people get confused with is, the Gen III/IV engines are completely different from "Gen I" SBCs... they are completely metric engines. The 5.3L is not a 327(325 if anything), the 5.7L is not a 350(346 if anything). They are a COMPLETELY different animal.

Autometer in fact does make tons of different electronic speedo that you can use with a VSS signal.
http://www.autometer.com
But since you're not getting the transmission, you should figure out what transmission you're going to run first... If you get this engine it might be an idea to write down what kind of trans it had (4L80E or 4L60E probably?), and try to find a 2wd version of that same trans, I image that might save you some headaches. I can't remember what engines came with cable and which came with drive by wire... does the throttle have a cable, or an electric unit on it?

And lastly... get your butt registered on http://www.ls1tech.com and surf the crap outta that site. TONS of good information, it's where I got all my info from, and I don't even have a Gen III motor to put in my car... I just like knowing what hurdles I will face in my future endeavors.

Ok, my fingers hurt now... gonna stop typing, let me know if you have any questions, or if you can answer any of my questions above.

 

[treed_cutlass]

I forgot about oil pans.

I have no idea which oil pan that H2 motor is gonna have, probably the truck version?
Either way, you may find that the sump will hang kind of low, below the engine crossmember.
From the pictures I have dug up, it looks like if you can get your engine reeaaalllly far back in the engine bay, you might be able to run an f-body pan, which shouldn't hang below the crossmember. Others have run a cadillac CTS-V oil pan, which only hangs below the engine crossmember a little. This all depends on what mounts you use, and how low/high you mount the engine.

Others yet have run the f-body pan and just notched the back of the engine crossmember to fit.

Others yet (that's 2 yets) have notched the sump of the f-body pan rather than notching the engine crossmember.

The pans are fairly thick cast aluminum, so you'll need a good tig welder to do this.

 

[RITTER]

I have read that they use a couple of different transmissions, 4l60E/4l65E

Its a cable throttle setup so I am good there. For the fuel system I was thinking of running a stock 98-02 F-body LS in-tank pump assembly with a regulator. The stock 2006 H2 fuel pump puts out 35.5 GPH and runs at 54.1 psi, the stock 2002 LS1 F-body pumps 35.6 GPH at 58 psi.