G-body to A-body spindle swap

[86Cutlass383SR]

What is the best spindle to use on the G-body for handling?
Is the B Spindle the best choice out there now?
I am doing a C-5 conversion on a 87 ElCo.

Thanks,
Dave

I was in the process of peicing together a b-body spindle setup. I ordered the Global West arms for the conversion. Due to the b/f-body spindle being taller, a shorter upper a-arm is needed. Well, when I ordered my GW arms I called and toldthem I was wanting to do the b-body spindle swap and they ended up sending me the wrong arms. Notknowing until a few years later did I find this out unfortunately. A call to GW and an explaination these arms had never been mounted got me no-where with their sending me the wrong arms. I sold them for 75% of what I bought them for new.

I talked to Marcus at SC&C and ne convinced me to retain the stock g-body spindle as the f/b-body spindle swap has it's share of problems. It does improve the caster and camber but the bumpsteer is not even close to being ideal. Apparently it can be fixed but there are now better solutions.

Since I had bought all my swap parts years ago, many newer and better ideas and ways have come along. Enter Marcus at SC&C. He sells both a stage 1 and stage 2 setup using the stock g-body spindle yet also increasing the cars handling. Both use a custom tubular upper arm. Stage 1 uses a taller upper ball joint and stage 2 uses both upper and lower upper balljoint. In a PM to Marcus he told me the improved geometry is as good as a 2002 f-body.

But, that's for the handling and you asked about the brakes. Ed Miller at www.flynbye.com sells the bracket to mount the C5 caliper to the stock g spindle. You mount this to the dust shield holes with the included grade 8 bolts. Mill the brake portion off your old rotors (or any worn-out rotors since you're not using the *brake* portion of it) and use the hub to mount the Vette rotor which has no hub section. You can get replacement parts at any auto parts store as they are stock 2000 Corvette parts. Tobin at www.kore3.com sells a pair of new loaded front calipers and brackets for $300. Napa has re-maned units but they also carry a core charge and cost almost as much as these new ones. 13" plain (not drilled or slotted) rotors fome Napa are $45 ea. The brackets from Ed are about $75 for the pair. So, you're looking at somewhere between $500 - $500 for 13" Vette front calipers and rotors on your stock g-body spindles. But, be forewarned, these brakes need 17" wheels and not all wheels will clear the Vette calipers. Kore 3 has a downloadable template to check if the brakes will fit your wheels, provided you already have them. Both Tobin and Ed also has hybrid kits to fit other wheels. Best bet, call Tobin at Kore 3 or Ed Miller a call and they can guide you to exactly what you need.

Next time you see somebody with fancy Baer brakes just remember, your brakes are just as good for less than half the price. Or, you can add the both the front and rear disc brakes for what they have in just their fronts :lol:

 

[drb930]

Thanks Doug,

I see we are on similar paths.
Are you running a MAF, or SD, I see in your signature our motors are very close.
If you are running SD I would love to see your tune.
I will read some on the SC&C site, looks pretty good.
Am I right in understanding that the SC&C setup gets all the benefits of the taller spindle without the bump steer issues by using a longer ball joint?
Do you have any of the parts that you bought left?
I already have the C-5 Brake Calipers, bought a new take-off set of front and rear calipers for $250, sweet!
Still waiting for Kore3 to complete the rear C-5 conversion with the E-Brake on the GN Rear End that I already have to put in the car.
Look forward to talking to you again.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[86Cutlass383SR]

Thanks Doug,
I see we are on similar paths.
Are you running a MAF, or SD, I see in your signature our motors are very close.
If you are running SD I would love to see your tune.
I will read some on the SC&C site, looks pretty good.
Am I right in understanding that the SC&C setup gets all the benefits of the taller spindle without the bump steer issues by using a longer ball joint?
Do you have any of the parts that you bought left?
I already have the C-5 Brake Calipers, bought a new take-off set of front and rear calipers for $250, sweet!
Still waiting for Kore3 to complete the rear C-5 conversion with the E-Brake on the GN Rear End that I already have to put in the car.
Look forward to talking to you again.
Thanks,
Dave

I am running the MAF setup based on an 89 chip. I am currecntly rebuilding the engine and a few upgrades are in store. A bit mor compression and a bigger 280 XFI Comp Cams hyd roller. My old hyd roller was a 218*/224* 112* and I'm going up to a 230*/236* 113* hyd roller. I'll have PCMforless do me an initial tune and maybe I can finish tuning it out with the AutoProm and TunerPro/TunerPro RT stuff I have. Big learning curve!!!

I don't have any of the SC&C stuff yet but I have talked with enough people who have it and to Marcus via PM's. I WILL be getting the Stage 2 kit with next years income tax refund. You are exactly correct on the setup. The taller ball joints do the same thing as the f/b-body spindles but since you're not moving the steering arm very much (only what the lower ball joint increased height over stock ball joint) you basically get all the positive benefits without the negative. Do to the taller ball joints you do still need to run a shorter upper arm. The SC&C arms are lighter and adjustable. In reading about these arms on Pro-Touring.com, The adjustability of these arms have several advantages over non-adjustable arms. (1) No shims needed to adjust alignment. (2) If you drag race or autocross your car, you can set up your race specs with just the arms and then do a street adjustment with shims. When you get to the track just remove the shims and your race settings are ready to go. When it's time to go back home, just put in the shims and your street settings are right bck where they were. There's a lot more to this discussion and you can read about it here: http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/showth ... 686&page=3 It's a 3 page discussion and a lot more detailed than I can get here.

The C5 calipers and rotors are all I keep of my old setup. When I realized I had the wrong arms to do the swap, I sold them and the f/b-body spindle C5 adapter brackets. I gave the spindles away to get rid of them. I bought new g-body C5 brackets from Ed Miller. The g-body spindle brackets are differant and Ed has them for sale. Kore 3 doesn't have those. Ed also modified a stock prop valve so I could swap them out when I do my rear disc swap.

Good score on the brake parts. I can't wait to start getting what I need to put rear disc's on my car. I've got a ways to go yet. Get engine finished, get engine/T 56 into car, get car mobile on it's own, then I can get my front and rear disc swaps sorted out.

 

[drb930]

Doug,

Good luck on your re-build.
Let me know how it goes?
Looks like a good choice on the cam, i have the same cam that you are getting rid of 219/219 560"/560" on 112 lc with 1.6 ratio rockers which is a different cam, but i wish i had gone bigger. But i digress, i had to look for torque as it is an ElCo and it needs to be a truck and tow vehicle at times.
I will let you know how the brakes go. Can't do them just yet as i got caught in the global lay off and need to get back to work before i spend more money on the toys.
Out at the junk yard yesterday collecting G-body stiffing braces.
I have RT Tuner, and TunerPro so we could share bin files, but i am running SD.
Stay in touch.

Thanks,
Dave

 

[86Cutlass383SR]

Doug,
Good luck on your re-build.
Let me know how it goes?
Looks like a good choice on the cam, i have the same cam that you are getting rid of 219/219 560"/560" on 112 lc with 1.6 ratio rockers which is a different cam, but i wish i had gone bigger. But i digress, i had to look for torque as it is an ElCo and it needs to be a truck and tow vehicle at times.
I will let you know how the brakes go. Can't do them just yet as i got caught in the global lay off and need to get back to work before i spend more money on the toys.
Out at the junk yard yesterday collecting G-body stiffing braces.
I have RT Tuner, and TunerPro so we could share bin files, but i am running SD.
Stay in touch.
Thanks,
Dave

Every place I went to concerning my engine wanted to put my engine together for me for $500, and give me a 90 warranty. "I'll put it together myself for $500 and 90 day warranty". The guy I ended up going to was a lot more reasonably priced and also wanted $500 to put my engine together. What type of warranty? 1 year? Ok, put it together then!

That cam of yours sounds a lot like the famous Lingenfelter 219 cam. I've heard a lot of good about that cam. You running a SuperRam, too? PM me about your engine setup. We need to discuss this !! :wink: I'm going to need help getting this thing tuned. As I said before, I'm going to have PCMforless burn me a starter chip but I know to get really fine-tuned will be on my shoulders! I have the 730 SD ECM and it shows on ThirdGen.org how to re-pin for the MAF - to - SD swap so I *may* end up going that direction. Anyhow, I might need some help getting my feet wet in the tuning world!

Sux about the job!!! Will they call you back or is a new job search on your horizon? Either way, good luck to you.

If you need some super-econo yet super-effectice frame and rear seat braces let me know, I'll tell you how to make em for next to nothing money-wise. Really simple to make and install. I was totally surprised how much they helped.

If you think we should takethis to PM, let me know.

Doug

 

[drb930]

Doug,

I just realized that i didn't have a signature here, so updated now.
Our engines are very similar.
Yes i have the Ligenfelder 219 cam.
I would recommend going to the 730 SD.
Also i am running NVSRAM, what it does is take the 730 computer to the 21th century like a LS series computer, flash download. I am able to download in real time or upload my bin through the ALDL port with a simple laptop interface, so no need to burn chips. Cost? $45.00 if you want to put the board together yourself, or $75. for a complete board ready to plug into your 730 SD computer. You adjust your bin file through TunerCat, or TunerPro on your computer, take the laptop to your car, plug in the interface to the usb port on the computer and the other end into the ALDL and turn on the ignition and laod your new adjusted program. No burning! Or you can adjust your bin in real time with the engine running!
Here is a site to convert your MAF to SD http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~davis/z28/index.html
SD vs MAF i dont think i could help you with tuning.
E-mail is better [email protected]

Thanks,
Dave

 

[drb930]

Re:

Got them from performance online. Everything but mastercylinder/booster, already had that. Good quality stuff. They usually have auctions on E-bay but you can find them at performanceonline.com, they are in Fullerton Calif.Using the drum spindles you can use the C5 corvette rotors and calipers, but you need to turn down the outer diameter of the hub for the hats to fit over them and of course you need special brackets for the calipers, several companies are making them. Priced everything out at one time for about $600, depending on how fancy you wanted the rotors or the brake pads. Seemed pretty reasonable to me, specially for getting 13" rotors and four piston calipers. Course you need to run 17" wheels for everything to clear properly.

Actually Bubba, you have a interesting idea!
I have been doing some research and the interesting fact that can be done with the drum brake spindles is mount the caliper on the back or trailing side of the spindle, where it belongs!
All these other kits mount the caliper with the dust shield bolt holes on the front side or leading side of the spindle.
I would like to talk to you more on how and if this can be accomplished and how to work out the problems with the steering arms, ball joint holes, ect.
I would much rather have the calipers on the trailing side of the spindle.
As someone else said in this thread, using the dust shield holes is easier, but not better.
If you look at all new high performance cars today they all have all the calipers on the trailing side, motorcycles too!

Thanks,
Dave

 

[87AeroSS]

A buddy of mine did a conversion to c5 z06 rotors and calipers on his s-10 (which has basically the same spindle) using one of the bracket kits. The big difference he did was use drop spindles for a 98-up blazer (2 piece), because according to him the bracket kit moves everything outward. I think it turned out real nice