LS Disappointment?

[fleming442]

It no secret that I'm no fan of the LS swap sheerly due to it's popularity. As I was having my coffee, waiting for the garage to warm up, I was watching Car Fix (I'm a big Lou Santiago fan), and they were doing the east coast Power Tour in a twin turbo LS 69 Camaro (cliche AF). Anyhow, they stuck it on a chassis dyno at the first stop, and had a guy from HP Tuners throw a tune on it. The first run was "pig rich" (his words) at around 9.5:1 AFR which netted a tire shredding 339rwhp- talk about underwhelming! After a few more runs, they got it up to 426rwhp. Now, granted, that was probably a very conservative, pump gas tune, however my takeaway was this: after all the fab work to plumb twins and do a swap, I'd be pissed!
Out of all these swaps on this board running a hairdryer (or 2), are there any proven high HP/truly quick or fast cars? Or, are you happy just "having a turbo LS"? It just goes to prove that the correct formula is crucial to a build. Get it wrong, and you just have a show car.

 

[olds307 and 403]

I too am no fan of them, stock they suck, down low especially. I would be major pissed, 500ish crank hp out of an LS turbo build? Hell that is possible out of a NA Olds small block stroker. The whole point of a LS build is the very strong bottom and detonation resistant efficient heads so you can boost the sh*t out of it. Otherwise, why bother?

 

[Max Headroom]

I can see your point and for the most part agree. A twin turbo LS being daily driven just doesn't make sense, if that is all you do with it. If you de-tune it for a run (not daily driving) and then re-tune it for racing it starts to make more sense for some, I suppose. I just think the compromises that must be made to twin blow an engine are made specifically to make power, not a street-able engine that gets mileage and behaves on the street.

I am old school in my approach to making power. I will use aftermarket parts that increase performance through efficient design and optimized physics (think the latest aluminum heads) but I don't do computer control because of the expense and my lack of understanding of how to make it work. I have friends who would be happy to teach me and I guess I'm still smart enough to learn but I realized that making power can be a never ending expense for the latest thing and I decided that I would rather make absolutely the best power with what I have than to bolt on the latest gadget to get another X amount of hp.

Shortly after I got my 79 Malibu, I went light to light with a new, top dollar Camaro. He beat me by almost a car on the first light and by a little less than half a car on the second. He rolled the window down with a big grin while we were waiting for the third light to go green and asked me what I thought of my hot rod after he beat me twice. I told him that I was all in the car for less than $7,000 and then asked him how much his Camaro set him back. The smile disappeared and the window went back up.

There is ALWAYS someone faster and I'm not going to compete by blindly throwing money at my car.

 

[Ribbedroof]

Engine building is the same no matter what platform....don't have a coordinated plan for your target and just throw the trick of the week at it, disappointment is sure to follow.

 

[Ribbedroof]

Max, ever hear of ecoboost?

Not every turbo build is all about maximum acceleration, it gets used a lot for late model small displacement commuters to achieve better fuel economy

 

[jlcustomz]

Sounds like they had a few Chinese parts on it from a place called Sumting Wong .
No doubt it could be way better.
What I hate about the LS is that I got one in 02' when people were still scared of swapping them & now I'm crowded in with all the me too's.

 

[motorheadmike]

I dunno. Back in 2016, post Drag Week, I put my 5300lb Procharged TBSS into the 11s at 116mph. How much power does it take to go 116mph at 5300lbs? About 650-700hp. Let that sink in for a moment. Because in a car 2000lbs lighter it would run high 9s.

Stock high mileage long block with an LS9 cam and some fresh beehives, headers (the Holley Mid-Rise intake is a wash for power potential compared to the stock intake), and an intercooled D1SC Procharger. That's it. All pushed through an AWD system and a 9.5" differential... and the car seats still installed.

It is still listed as the 7th quickest/fastest SBE AWD truck in North America: https://tbssowners.com/forums/track-racing/97840-**official-1-4-mile-fast-list**.html

And this is my daily driver/Winter beater.

It is all in the correct selection of parts and the tuning. If they suck, the engine sucks and the car will not perform. It took me a week and thousands of miles to tune the truck in. It took two summers to get the wagon sorted. And sure as sh*t the Monte isn't going to be tuned right straight out of the box.

So who knows what is wrong with Lou's combo?

Don't mind me I am just a huge LS nutswinger.

 

[fleming442]

Mike,you're my outlier in this thread (and bob64 is it?). Taking the time to do the research and learn how to tune set you guys apart from the crowd. I'm sure there are others, but you two are first to mind....
There's guys like my buddy with the ZR1 that rely on others for the tuning, and it costs big bucks if you can't to it yourself.
My point was more about combination and how easily you can screw the pooch and end up with a fancy, polished turd. FFS, there are plenty of proven combos out there, why do what you "think" will be good? Go to the track, and talk to someone running impressive numbers.

 

[olds307 and 403]

I dunno. Back in 2016, post Drag Week, I put my 5300lb Procharged TBSS into the 11s at 116mph. How much power does it take to go 116mph at 5300lbs? About 650-700hp. Let that sink in for a moment. Because in a car 2000lbs lighter it would run high 9s.

Stock high mileage long block with an LS9 cam and some fresh beehives, headers (the Holley Mid-Rise intake is a wash for power potential compared to the stock intake), and an intercooled D1SC Procharger. That's it. All pushed through an AWD system and a 9.5" differential... and the car seats still installed.

It is still listed as the 7th quickest/fastest SBE AWD truck in North America: https://tbssowners.com/forums/track-racing/97840-**official-1-4-mile-fast-list**.html

And this is my daily driver/Winter beater.

It is all in the correct selection of parts and the tuning. If they suck, the engine sucks and the car will not perform. It took me a week and thousands of miles to tune the truck in. It took two summers to get the wagon sorted. And sure as sh*t the Monte isn't going to be tuned right straight out of the box.

So who knows what is wrong with Lou's combo?

Don't mind me I am just a huge LS nutswinger.

What you do with a LS is the whole point of a modern motor, boost the crap out of it and make big power, reliably. I plan on doing that to my Challenger GT eventually. If you are not, unless you need max mpg, even then buy something else other than a G body, I say run something else unique, don't be sheep people.

 

[lilbowtie]

I wouldn't have even published those numbers.