machine work prices and more

[G_Body_Enthusiast]

i have never rebuilt an engine before so i need information on machining costs.

the rebuild i'm looking at is pretty much basic and straightforward. hot tank the block and heads and have them checked for cracks, etc. bore and hone the block, line hone the mains if needed, deck the block, install cam bearings and various plugs, turn and polish the crank, recon the rods & install new pistons. then having the heads prepped (plugs with pipe threads, not those disc plugs), resurface mating surfaces, install bronze valve guides, etc.

this is for a cadillac engine.

how much would all of this cost roughly? i know prices can go up because of unforeseen circumstances and i'm not looking for cheap work either. i want quality work and i'm willing to pay for it because i want it done right. i'm patient and i dont want the work rushed. i'd rather they take their time to do it right and pay a bit more.

the parts i'm looking at using are OE stock parts as it's a stock rebuild aside from the cam which i havent settled on yet. again i'm willing to pay more for quality parts than cheap parts.

on top of a rough estimate budget i'd also like to know what to expect from the whole process, things i should do/not do, etc. i want as much information as i can get before i start having work done and maybe save myself a few headaches at the same time.

 

[online170]

Best advice I can give you, is to take it to MTS in Ohio. Make the 3 hour trip, it'll be worth it. When youre trying to get clearances, and numbers right on the money for "niche" engines, its helpful to have a handfull of parts to pick from. Not alot of people have that capability for this engine.


For $$$, I use this for a good reference on pricing;
http://automachperf.com/pricelist.html

 

[online170]

PM Sent.

 

[Bonnewagon]

"Not alot of people have that capability for this engine." That right there is the most important aspect. While a really good machinist "should" be able to approach any job objectively, in reality, they usually suffer from a bad case of "Chevythink". The last time I had an engine rebuilt, my machinist was himself a BBC guy, but was open minded enough to know about ALL makes and approached each job with the same professionalism. So while he had done Pontiacs before, he openly admitted he had never done a 301. He said he had the torque plate for a 400, but not a 301, and when I explained that they are the same (bore spacing, head bolt holes) he assured me that there would be no problems. And that engine is still tight and smooth as we speak. Another thing that bugged me was how some shops had a price for everything, no matter how small, and left it up to you to request each and every service, which meant you probably overlooked some things, and once it all was added up, the cost was prohibitive. My guy explained what each operation was, why it was needed, how much it cost, and gave a total cost PER REBUILD. Meaning he wanted you to know what was REQUIRED for a successful rebuild, what parts were needed, and anything extra you requested he would want to know why. This was so you didn't waste time and money on some procedure you read about in a car magazine. He knew that any engine would require the same basic procedures no matter the make, and had a cost sheet available with those basics listed and then all the extras. For example, oversize valves for a 301 aren't readily available, so he suggested installing bronze guides and machining to stock valve stem size. Worked like a charm, cost very little extra. Be very suspicious of a guy who just pulls figures out of the air. My cost was $1000 for the machine work, and the rebuild parts kit he provided was $700, all quality makers. I could not find a better price, not even from PAW or the other discounters, and while I am sure the prices are more now, his jobber discount which he passed along to me could not be beat. This included him assembling the balanced short block and heads. Why? So if any of those critical parts had a problem, he could correct it on site rather than me dragging stuff back and complaining. I did the final assembly, painting, and installation and that engine has been in 3 cars and is still working perfectly. I know you are in Kentucky, but for anyone on Long Island/NYC my guy is Bob at Ace Crankshaft in Deer Park. I have sent him a LOT of jobs and everyone loves his work.

 

[pontiacgp]

Mark brings up a very good point. You need to find an engine builder who knows the Cadillac engine you have. From the racing world I know builders who are great with SBC but they won't touch a SBF or a Dodge engine

 

[online170]

Bonnewagon's machinist experience is similar to mine. Regarded an engine as an "engine" and not a Chevy and Other. Same amount of professionalism and care taken whether it was a lawn mower engine, or a pro-stock race motor.

Explained everything. Was very hesitent to have you spend money that you didnt need and explained everything he did along the way. Passed along discounts when he could. etc etc. My only complaint, was the company he worked for had old and tired equipment, that was not kept up. He had to do the best he could with what he was given. The quality in the end part was always there, but the accuracy I wanted was lacking.

 

[Bonnewagon]

Online170 reminded me of another good point. My guy's crank grinder was a friend of mine and was so meticulous, he replaced all the bearings in the grinding machine so he could get his tolerances down to .0001.

 

[pontiacgp]

Online170 reminded me of another good point. My guy's crank grinder was a friend of mine and was so meticulous, he replaced all the bearings in the grinding machine so he could get his tolerances down to .0001.

he must have known about your beer stash.. :shock:

 

[Bonnewagon]

Oh yes, he knows just where to look- the crisper drawer in my fridge. Another thing, once parts are replaced, balancing is required so beware anyone who wants to ADD weight to the crank. Remove, yes, add, no. Why? Maybe it's OK for a full-tilt high end race shop with a forged steel crank, but for a stock engine, not cost affective nor reliable for a stock iron crank. My guy would only add weight to the flexplate, which when bolted up, becomes part of the crank and since the bolt pattern was asymmetrical, could only be positioned one way. This was beneficial to me later when I converted to a manual trans. He merely match balanced the manual flywheel to the flexplate and all was copacetic.

 

[dogsht]

Ditto! "Best advice I can give you, is to take it to MTS in Ohio. Make the 3 hour trip, it'll be worth it. When youre trying to get clearances, and numbers right on the money for "niche" engines, its helpful to have a handfull of parts to pick from. Not alot of people have that capability for this engine.


For $$$, I use this for a good reference on pricing;
http://automachperf.com/pricelist.html"

I might replace the word capability with knowledge as many shops have the capability if they know what certain tolerances should really be (they won't & regardless of a book of stock specs) for a nitch motor for the particular parts being used and its build goals etc. I have used automachine & performance's price list as well which is also a great shop that specializes in performance Buicks. Some shops will charge more or less for a given thing depending on how they break it down but as a reference and as an overall for a given set of jobs thats a good list for doing a given thing correctly.

Azeem is long time student of hot rodding knows the Caddy world well and his advice is spot on. John Walker ie MTS north has built & competed in Engine Master Challenges with the big Cad and built the Cadillac Horsepower TV engine that made like 600 HP 600 TQ on pump gas. He will help you pick the right parts and make the right machining decisions for your budget & goals. He will even take the time to explain the why if you want to know. If you have more than one motor bring it when you make the trip as usually the best combination of parts will come from more than one motor or for if he finds a cracked block or head or bad crank etc.