i have a cance to buy a set of sportsman 2 heads for a good price, they are the 72cc agle head version and i am debating if they are gonna be good for my application before i commit to buying them. at first i ws thinking they would be perfect for my 350 tpi engine i have been collecting parts for, it has vortec heads now and i was thinking with the sportsmans i could bolt the stock tpi intake right to it, i am thinking that those heads flow wa too much for tpi now that i have looked into them, i may be wrong? second thoughts, i have a 355 with flat tops and 882 heads right now, the engine is sitting in the garage waiting for a reseal before going into my 442, so now i am thinking that these heads would work good on there, may even consider a rebuild with a small dome piston to boost my compression some. is 72cc still too much? it has 76cc heads now so i wold think that it would help but i wanna be sure before i drop the cash. also i run a edelbrock 600 on the 355 with high rise intake, headers, mild cam...... i planned to go to a holley 650 on that motor also. advice would be greatly appreciated!
need advice on heads/engine build up
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sportsman heads all the way then you can run a bigger cam. I would then upgrade to 750 carb. I would not use dome pistons for street,you should be at 9-1 with flat tops. Nice dual plane performer also....JMO and combined experience. Maybe a 2800 stall also. I scrapped two sets of 882 heads. I believe they are the worst flowing head GM ever made..again JMO
I'm not sure what the Sportman heads flow but they're better than the 882's and Vortec heads. Vortecs are good heads but if you use the Vortec TPI base that is one of the worst flowing TPI bases made from what I've heard.
Don't use a dome piston. Run a flat top for better flame travel in the chambers, set your quench as tight as reasonably possible, .040" - .045". If you're not rebuilding the shortblock, measure how far down your piston sits in the block and that will help determine which head gasket thichness to use to set the quench. You could always have the heads milled to reduce chamber if you wanted before installing them. With them being cast iron I'd shoot for 9.5 - 9.75 compression depending on your cam & other variables. Some guys on Thirdgen.org are running 11-1 with alum heads and bigger cams with TPI based motors but with cast iron heads you want to subtract about 1 point of compression.
Depending on what you want to do with that TPI, Sportman heads may be too much. I'm running AFR 190's on my TPI based 383 but it's far from stock, too. Accel base and SuperRam plenum/runners, 30# injectors, 10-1 c.r., 230*/236* 113* lsa hyd roller cam, custom chip, etc etc ...
Don't use a dome piston. Run a flat top for better flame travel in the chambers, set your quench as tight as reasonably possible, .040" - .045". If you're not rebuilding the shortblock, measure how far down your piston sits in the block and that will help determine which head gasket thichness to use to set the quench. You could always have the heads milled to reduce chamber if you wanted before installing them. With them being cast iron I'd shoot for 9.5 - 9.75 compression depending on your cam & other variables. Some guys on Thirdgen.org are running 11-1 with alum heads and bigger cams with TPI based motors but with cast iron heads you want to subtract about 1 point of compression.
Depending on what you want to do with that TPI, Sportman heads may be too much. I'm running AFR 190's on my TPI based 383 but it's far from stock, too. Accel base and SuperRam plenum/runners, 30# injectors, 10-1 c.r., 230*/236* 113* lsa hyd roller cam, custom chip, etc etc ...
ok, so i am thinking that these heads are going in my 442, i am either bolting them on to my existing 355 or gonna throw together a new 350. i have the chance to also buy a cam that is matched to the springs already installed in these heads, it has .510 lift, is this gonna be too much for what i am building? if not what should i be looking into for a cam? the motor has a smaller energizer cam right now.
Just the lift specs tells me nothing really and doesn't matter much anyhow. You running this engine carbed or TPI? Is it a hydraulic roller or flat tappet cam? If it's a flat tappet make SURE the lifters go back on the exact same lobes or better yet just get new lifters. As long as the hyd roller lifters are good (if that's what they are) can be reused on any lobe. Also make sure the engine the cam comes out if is the same as yours. Pre - roller cam blocks use differant cams as the oem roller blocks. I think they can be interchanged but the cam gear on each is differant.
What does matter is the duration of the cam and what the lobe seperation angle is, especially if it's gonna be TPI. Huge cams (upwards of 240-250 duration @ .050" lift and on a 108* lsa) can be run on a radically modified TPI. BUT (there's always a catch!) you HAVE to be able to tune the computer yourself. A mail-order tune can get close enough to safely run the engine but you still have to maximize it youself. Just like a carb, you can have somebody build you a carb for a full race engine but you'll still have to fine tune it youself.
Need specs on the cam...
Intended use of the car/engine...
Carby or TPI...
If TPI, is it stock...
Does TPI have a MAF or is it Speed Density...
Are you willing to get what you need to make this run properly or rather leave it close to stock...
Somebody that's really good with a carb may disagree but my TPI at it's worst was still better than any carb I've ever run. That's MY experience. Others may be differant and that's okay.
But, a carb and ignition timing has to be a compromise. You can tune for peak effiency in either economy, mid-range, or top end WOT power. Or you can compromise and get all 3 sorta okay all at once.
With a computer, you can tune each section for the maximum and not have to compromise. The computer readjusts the fuel and timing 30 times a second. Even if you had a mechanic sitting on top of you engine while you were driving down the road he couldn't adjust it that fast or effectively! Cruising down the highway and the computer reads a differant section of the fuel/timing map burned in the chip and can be tune to run it's best there. Nail the throttle wide open and it reads yet another section of the fuel/timing map (and it, too, has been maximized) and you get the best top end power. NO COMPROMISE!
What does matter is the duration of the cam and what the lobe seperation angle is, especially if it's gonna be TPI. Huge cams (upwards of 240-250 duration @ .050" lift and on a 108* lsa) can be run on a radically modified TPI. BUT (there's always a catch!) you HAVE to be able to tune the computer yourself. A mail-order tune can get close enough to safely run the engine but you still have to maximize it youself. Just like a carb, you can have somebody build you a carb for a full race engine but you'll still have to fine tune it youself.
Need specs on the cam...
Intended use of the car/engine...
Carby or TPI...
If TPI, is it stock...
Does TPI have a MAF or is it Speed Density...
Are you willing to get what you need to make this run properly or rather leave it close to stock...
Somebody that's really good with a carb may disagree but my TPI at it's worst was still better than any carb I've ever run. That's MY experience. Others may be differant and that's okay.
But, a carb and ignition timing has to be a compromise. You can tune for peak effiency in either economy, mid-range, or top end WOT power. Or you can compromise and get all 3 sorta okay all at once.
With a computer, you can tune each section for the maximum and not have to compromise. The computer readjusts the fuel and timing 30 times a second. Even if you had a mechanic sitting on top of you engine while you were driving down the road he couldn't adjust it that fast or effectively! Cruising down the highway and the computer reads a differant section of the fuel/timing map burned in the chip and can be tune to run it's best there. Nail the throttle wide open and it reads yet another section of the fuel/timing map (and it, too, has been maximized) and you get the best top end power. NO COMPROMISE!
here is he deal, i have 2 motors i m building and i have been going back and forth between efi and carb, the vortec 350 i would really like to have efi, the other 355 is carbed and i am willing to stay that way for some good power. here is what i have.
the 355
flat top pistons
882 heads
high rise intake
edelbrock carb
mild energizer cam
headers
true duals
flowmasters
hei dist
the 350 vortec motor was previously amarine 350 from a 98 stingray. it is literally a ram jet motor minus the efi, the cam is the ram jet roller cam, powered rods.......
i want to do tpi on it since i have everything to do it, here is a list of what i have for it
i have a complete stock tpi setup
billet block offs fof everything
58mm holley throttle body
chip that deletes all the emissions, vats, 24lb injectors....
lt1 24lb injectors
adjustable holley regulator
grand national tank, pump, sending unit
harness tht i used a manual to delete all the stuff i dont need
i have spare computers, distributors, harness and almost a complete second setup, missing the distributor cover and maybe some bolts
now i was originally thinking that these spoertsman heads would be better to use with the vortec/ram jet motor so that i do not need a vortec base manifold to bolt it on, the manifold costs 450 or go with a holley stelth ram but then i have to buy a additional 250 dollar fuel rail wich puts me at like 550 verses the vortec 350 lower base. now if i use those sportsmans i can bolt the tpi right to itand i can get the heads for less then the base monifold and i should be able to build some good power wih them but at the same time i almost think that i am not using the heads to their full capabilities with the tpi so that why i considered using hem on the 355 but i think i need a bigger cam to really build some power up. those 882 heads have mixed reviews nd i have never rebuilt them. i am not sure what path to go at this point, i really wanna do the tpi setup with all of the money and time i have invested but i have a hard time spending that much cas on a lower manfold
dfsdsdfs
the 355
flat top pistons
882 heads
high rise intake
edelbrock carb
mild energizer cam
headers
true duals
flowmasters
hei dist
the 350 vortec motor was previously amarine 350 from a 98 stingray. it is literally a ram jet motor minus the efi, the cam is the ram jet roller cam, powered rods.......
i want to do tpi on it since i have everything to do it, here is a list of what i have for it
i have a complete stock tpi setup
billet block offs fof everything
58mm holley throttle body
chip that deletes all the emissions, vats, 24lb injectors....
lt1 24lb injectors
adjustable holley regulator
grand national tank, pump, sending unit
harness tht i used a manual to delete all the stuff i dont need
i have spare computers, distributors, harness and almost a complete second setup, missing the distributor cover and maybe some bolts
now i was originally thinking that these spoertsman heads would be better to use with the vortec/ram jet motor so that i do not need a vortec base manifold to bolt it on, the manifold costs 450 or go with a holley stelth ram but then i have to buy a additional 250 dollar fuel rail wich puts me at like 550 verses the vortec 350 lower base. now if i use those sportsmans i can bolt the tpi right to itand i can get the heads for less then the base monifold and i should be able to build some good power wih them but at the same time i almost think that i am not using the heads to their full capabilities with the tpi so that why i considered using hem on the 355 but i think i need a bigger cam to really build some power up. those 882 heads have mixed reviews nd i have never rebuilt them. i am not sure what path to go at this point, i really wanna do the tpi setup with all of the money and time i have invested but i have a hard time spending that much cas on a lower manfold
dfsdsdfs
Sorry for the delay in getting back. Holidays and work...
The Vortec/TPI base isn't as good as even a stock base from what I've heard. I've never used it myself. Depending on how far you want to go with the TPI you have to look at several things. If you run the Sportsman heads and stay with stock runners and base, they are going to be your flow restrictions. You have the good throttle body. The stock plenum can be ported at home by hand so you're good there.
You might want to go to www.thirdgen.org and spend some time in the "TPI" section and see what can be done with what parts. A lot of the guys have some good used parts to sell in the for sale section, too, so good parts can be bought fairly reasonably. Think this out with a good plan and you won't regret going TPI. Jump into it with the wrong parts and you'll end up pulling the TPI and scattering it all over your yard...
A well thought out setup in a 350/355 can yield 350/400 flywheel horsepower and close to 400/450 torque. But ya gotta have the right combo to do it.
Here's what I'm running in mine. It's still waiting on installation but it's fairly close to the setup I had before I pulled the engine for a rebuild.
383
AFR 190 heads (Un-ported) 64cc
12cc "D" dished pistons - gives me 10-1 cr
Old cam: 218/224 Comp XE hyd roller on 112* LSA
New cam: 240/236 Comp XFI 280 hyd roller on 113*
30# Ford SVO injectors
Accel SuperRam intake, plenum, and runners
58mm Holley tb
MAF system
Will have PCMforless burn me a startup chip
Aftermarket T56 with 3.42 gears
Built with daily driver statis in mind. I'm talking 600 mile round trip roadtrips.
All the estimates I've had (from guys who has a combo close to mine and other sources) puts me at close to 480/500 hp and right at 500 tq. Final tuning will determine the hp/tq and the fuel mileage. I've heard between 20 - 25 mpg.
Are you wanting to build a fairly stock type TPI or something modified that you can still drive daily? It sounds like you're on the right track, I just wanna be clear of your goals so the wrong info isn't relayed back.
The Vortec/TPI base isn't as good as even a stock base from what I've heard. I've never used it myself. Depending on how far you want to go with the TPI you have to look at several things. If you run the Sportsman heads and stay with stock runners and base, they are going to be your flow restrictions. You have the good throttle body. The stock plenum can be ported at home by hand so you're good there.
You might want to go to www.thirdgen.org and spend some time in the "TPI" section and see what can be done with what parts. A lot of the guys have some good used parts to sell in the for sale section, too, so good parts can be bought fairly reasonably. Think this out with a good plan and you won't regret going TPI. Jump into it with the wrong parts and you'll end up pulling the TPI and scattering it all over your yard...
A well thought out setup in a 350/355 can yield 350/400 flywheel horsepower and close to 400/450 torque. But ya gotta have the right combo to do it.
Here's what I'm running in mine. It's still waiting on installation but it's fairly close to the setup I had before I pulled the engine for a rebuild.
383
AFR 190 heads (Un-ported) 64cc
12cc "D" dished pistons - gives me 10-1 cr
Old cam: 218/224 Comp XE hyd roller on 112* LSA
New cam: 240/236 Comp XFI 280 hyd roller on 113*
30# Ford SVO injectors
Accel SuperRam intake, plenum, and runners
58mm Holley tb
MAF system
Will have PCMforless burn me a startup chip
Aftermarket T56 with 3.42 gears
Built with daily driver statis in mind. I'm talking 600 mile round trip roadtrips.
All the estimates I've had (from guys who has a combo close to mine and other sources) puts me at close to 480/500 hp and right at 500 tq. Final tuning will determine the hp/tq and the fuel mileage. I've heard between 20 - 25 mpg.
Are you wanting to build a fairly stock type TPI or something modified that you can still drive daily? It sounds like you're on the right track, I just wanna be clear of your goals so the wrong info isn't relayed back.
im looking to build something that can be driven daily, has good power, has room for future mods but not really for cacing or anything like that. i may run the 1/8 mile in town one in awhile for fun but thats about it. i have ran those balls (bearings) throught the runners, i think they are suppose to dd some power by making them slightly larger. the non vortec bolt pattern after market intakes are allot easier to find for a reasonable amount so that would be a possible future upgrade. i also want to run the lt4 hot cam, i have read that it is very ideal for mild efi setups and i can find one used. ultimate goal tough is a budget build.
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