Quadrajet or Aftermarket?

Longroof79

Rocket Powered Basset Hound
Oct 14, 2008
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Gainesville, Fl
Absolutely. I see that all the time. They grab some speed shop sale item and think that a racing cam is going to make their car unbeatable. Instead, they can't get it to idle, it wastes gas, is loud, and performs worse that the stock cam. What I really don't understand is the resistance to admitting the mistake, backing up, and re-grouping. They whine "I spent money on that", and they throw more money at it in vain. Same with carburetors. If the factory used a two barrel, is was because that is all that engine needed. It probably had a low rpm cam, small valve heads, dead highway rear gears and a four barrel would be a waste. Yet, they throw a huge Holley on and the problems follow. Don't get me started on headers. Headers are for racing. Period. They are useless on the street, cause more headaches than anything, and turn simple maintenance into a chore. I may get flamed for that statement, but it is true. How often are you at WOT, where headers are needed? Probably not much. If you think you need them, great. But when I am asked to solve engine problems, usually the first thing I do is get rid of the headers. Example: my buddy has a 1980 TA, the 301 was replaced with a 1978 400. I found him a dead stock 1978 400 Q-jet and it just purrs. The 301 headers stayed on the car, and have roasted three aftermarket HP starters so far. Because the 301 has a one inch shorter deck height than a 400, so the wrong headers are rubbing against the starter. No one figured this out until now and the car is stranded 50 miles away from me at his house. I have a set of stock cast iron log manifolds and a complete Dynomax dual exhaust here ready to go on. But the only starter that will fit is a small 301 unit. We would have to drag a jack, stands, starter, and tools out there to perform the swap, and it is winter now. If he flatbeds it here the first thing I am going to do is sawzall them headers right off.
Mark,
I have to admit to you that I'm running headers. I was going to go with a set of old school Chevy ram horn manifolds, but at the time, I didn't have the stock manifolds to use so I resorted to headers. It actually runs pretty nice with the headers. I know headers benefit at higher rpm running. The only thing I dislike about them is access to certain spark plugs. I use NGK's, which have a shorter reach and better accessibility. I haven't had any starter issues with them, fortunately. nor do I need to use a heat shield.
 

Bonnewagon

Lost in the Labyrinth
Supporting Member
Sep 18, 2009
10,564
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Queens, NY
86LK, I still can't find a good Q-jet tutorial. But look at this shot of the secondaries opening. See the hanger lift the rods out? No bog here at all!
 
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Bonnewagon

Lost in the Labyrinth
Supporting Member
Sep 18, 2009
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Queens, NY
Hey Jack- another thing that affects off idle and midrange is the power piston spring. The power piston primary rod hanger has a spring inside that wants to raise it up, which raises the metering rods up out of the jets. Manifold vacuum holds the power piston down, and the rods sit deep into the jets. The top of the rod [the thick part- that is what the part number is- a .044" rod would have 44 as the last two digits of the part number] sits in the jet and as soon as manifold vacuum drops, the spring pushes the piston up, raising the rods out of the jets, and fuel flows. So assuming good manifold vacuum, a strong spring would raise the rods faster than a weak spring. A weak spring could cause a flat spot because as the throttle opens, air rushes in, but the rods are not moving up fast enough, starving for fuel. The problem is that it is impossible to determine a spring part number unless you had the original marked package or took one from a stock untouched parts carb and ID'd it that way. Otherwise the only way to compare springs is to mike the coil thickness and count the coils. Not very scientific. That would also mean much experimenting with different springs. If you had a good selection of springs available, that might work. A radical cam that produced low manifold vacuum would want a weak spring, and a stockish cam that made strong vacuum would want a strong spring. More food for thought.
 
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Longroof79

Rocket Powered Basset Hound
Oct 14, 2008
12,177
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Gainesville, Fl
Hey Jack- another thing that affects off idle and midrange is the power piston spring. The power piston primary rod hanger has a spring inside that wants to raise it up, which raises the metering rods up out of the jets. Manifold vacuum holds the power piston down, and the rods sit deep into the jets. The top of the rod [the thick part- that is what the part number is- a .044" rod would have 44 as the last two digits of the part number] sits in the jet and as soon as manifold vacuum drops, the spring pushes the piston up, raising the rods out of the jets, and fuel flows. So assuming good manifold vacuum, a strong spring would raise the rods faster than a weak spring. A weak spring could cause a flat spot because as the throttle opens, air rushes in, but the rods are not moving up fast enough, starving for fuel. The problem is that it is impossible to determine a spring part number unless you had the original marked package or took one from a stock untouched parts carb and ID'd it that way. Otherwise the only way to compare springs is to mike the coil thickness and count the coils. Not very scientific. That would also mean much experimenting with different springs. If you had a good selection of springs available, that might work. A radical cam that produced low manifold vacuum would want a weak spring, and a stockish cam that made strong vacuum would want a strong spring. More food for thought.
Mark,
Thank you for explaining some more theory regarding the power piston spring function. I guess it would help to know what spring was being used in there and like you suggested, having a few spare springs to experiment with. I have that '85 Chevy 454 truck carb that could donate a few parts to the cause.
There's a lot to know and learn about these carbs.
Happy New Year.
 

Bonnewagon

Lost in the Labyrinth
Supporting Member
Sep 18, 2009
10,564
14,298
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Queens, NY
Happy New Year.
Same to you Jack. I didn't get much sleep last night. It sounded like WW2 with all the fireworks. Some idiots were tossing fireworks into an apartment being renovated. It caught fire and burnt down. And of course there are overturned cars and crashes everywhere. Yikes!
 
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Longroof79

Rocket Powered Basset Hound
Oct 14, 2008
12,177
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Gainesville, Fl
Same to you Jack. I didn't get much sleep last night. It sounded like WW2 with all the fireworks. Some idiots were tossing fireworks into an apartment being renovated. It caught fire and burnt down. And of course there are overturned cars and crashes everywhere. Yikes!
Earlier in the evening we heard what sounded like cannon fire. or mortars. It was freakin' loud and the sky lit up. Then after awhile it subsided. I wouldn't doubt that there was a bunch of complaints. Other than that it was the usual firecrackers and ash cans and cherry bombs.
It sounded pretty crazy over there. Gotta love the craziness of living in NYC.
 
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Clone TIE Pilot

Comic Book Super Hero
Aug 14, 2011
3,861
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Galaxy far far away
Mark,
I have to admit to you that I'm running headers. I was going to go with a set of old school Chevy ram horn manifolds, but at the time, I didn't have the stock manifolds to use so I resorted to headers. It actually runs pretty nice with the headers. I know headers benefit at higher rpm running. The only thing I dislike about them is access to certain spark plugs. I use NGK's, which have a shorter reach and better accessibility. I haven't had any starter issues with them, fortunately. nor do I need to use a heat shield.

I have the old TES headers on my SBC. Only issues I had is to run spark plug heat sleeves and tight sparkplug access on some cylinders. They used to sell special telescoping sparkplug sockets for headers, which I have one of.
 
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86LK

Royal Smart Person
Jul 23, 2018
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I have the old TES headers on my SBC. Only issues I had is to run spark plug heat sleeves and tight sparkplug access on some cylinders. They used to sell special telescoping sparkplug sockets for headers, which I have one of.
got pics of such a tool, in case I see one at a swap meet?
 

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