Redoing Front Suspension

[mhsmonte]

Do control arm bushing make a big difference in the quality of the suspension... Polyurathane vs Rubber

Rubber
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Raybestos-560-1 ... d4&vxp=mtr
Polyurethane
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1978-88-Regal-M ... ea&vxp=mtr

 

[Silent viewer]

for some reason this didnt post the first time

I have always read that moog problem solvers were the best to get, that they may have been. But at the same time I was driving around with air ride on stock ball joints that had close to 200k on them and was told by many people that stock joints were junk. About 6 months ago I had to do tie rods and ball joints on my 01 sierra and was looking at getting moogs but decided to look into other options, I found out that moogs are no longer made in the usa and that most of these parts are coming from the same factory in different boxes. I believe in you get what you pay for but at the same time I have to wonder why I would buy a moog part when I can buy the cheapy part with less warrantee and set them side by side and see no difference. My cars are projects and like I did on my 442 I installed the front suspension about 3 years ago, likely won’t drive it much for another year or 2 so I personally do not give a crap about a warrantee. My experiences with many warrantees are they usually try to get out of them and say you were using the items in a manner in which they were not intended. I guess I am throwing into the debate spending money on the “name brand” parts verses buying off of ebay as mentioned above. As far as sealed vs. greasable I think that is a personal opinion, I could go both ways. I have seen sealed suspension parts last well over 200k and I have seen greasable parts fail with far less that were maintained well.

 

[mhsmonte]

for some reason this didnt post the first time

I have always read that moog problem solvers were the best to get, that they may have been. But at the same time I was driving around with air ride on stock ball joints that had close to 200k on them and was told by many people that stock joints were junk. About 6 months ago I had to do tie rods and ball joints on my 01 sierra and was looking at getting moogs but decided to look into other options, I found out that moogs are no longer made in the usa and that most of these parts are coming from the same factory in different boxes. I believe in you get what you pay for but at the same time I have to wonder why I would buy a moog part when I can buy the cheapy part with less warrantee and set them side by side and see no difference. My cars are projects and like I did on my 442 I installed the front suspension about 3 years ago, likely won’t drive it much for another year or 2 so I personally do not give a crap about a warrantee. My experiences with many warrantees are they usually try to get out of them and say you were using the items in a manner in which they were not intended. I guess I am throwing into the debate spending money on the “name brand” parts verses buying off of ebay as mentioned above. As far as sealed vs. greasable I think that is a personal opinion, I could go both ways. I have seen sealed suspension parts last well over 200k and I have seen greasable parts fail with far less that were maintained well.

I know you get what you pay for but when buying control arm bushing most look the same so it seems like it could be the same product with a different box and the box drives the price up. I will probably buy the Moog Problem solvers its just one of those things where I know I could save a couple of dollars to buy better beer for the job!

 

[Silent viewer]

I guess what I was trying to say was if the moogs are no longer American made and no better than any other suspension part why pay the extra for it? I think to do all moog on a g body its like 450ish, I did it on my 442 but I am not sure I will on my buick as its going back together. ball joints alone were around 50 each. I have been running poly bushings on my cars for years, it really seems to help out on the front ends

 

[MightyCarlo86]

I am not sure if anyone is familiar with the company but they do make a lot of options for front end parts and bushings. I want to get the poly graphite ones but this might be a good company to look into for your car depending on everyone's opinion.

www.p-s-t.com

 

[mhsmonte]

That company looks legit

 

[Fox80]

If the above post is true about now being made overseas then I agree, like I said when I was in the garage they were all US made, but that was seven years ago. All of the boxes I got from Rock Auto said made in the US on the box, if the other post is correct maybe they were old stock. I have a PST catalog if all this is true about Moog then I would buy the kit from them, it looks like all the stuff in that kit is decent. Opinions will differ on rubber vs poly, but what I have seen is poly CAN squeak, not always but can, also on a poly bushing the sleeve or shaft spins inside the bushing making the bushing a wear item, that is why the quality ones have a grease fitting in them. If you don't drive your car much they will probably last forever, but the original rubber ones on my car lasted 33 years 55,000 miles. Rubber bushings installed properly ( bolts tightened at ride height) will outlast poly ones. This is just my opinion, I have always done poly body and motor mounts and rubber suspension and have always been happy with the results, I have personally done this combo on probably 30+ cars of various makes, most of them customer cars, in the garage and never heard a complaint, but I did redo a poly bushing setup that was four years maybe 6,500 miles old because the car wouldn't align because of the slop in the lower control arm bushings, that was my 79' Camaro, but the theory is the same

 

[mhsmonte]

If the above post is true about now being made overseas then I agree, like I said when I was in the garage they were all US made, but that was seven years ago. All of the boxes I got from Rock Auto said made in the US on the box, if the other post is correct maybe they were old stock. I have a PST catalog if all this is true about Moog then I would buy the kit from them, it looks like all the stuff in that kit is decent. Opinions will differ on rubber vs poly, but what I have seen is poly CAN squeak, not always but can, also on a poly bushing the sleeve or shaft spins inside the bushing making the bushing a wear item, that is why the quality ones have a grease fitting in them. If you don't drive your car much they will probably last forever, but the original rubber ones on my car lasted 33 years 55,000 miles. Rubber bushings installed properly ( bolts tightened at ride height) will outlast poly ones. This is just my opinion, I have always done poly body and motor mounts and rubber suspension and have always been happy with the results, I have personally done this combo on probably 30+ cars of various makes, most of them customer cars, in the garage and never heard a complaint, but I did redo a poly bushing setup that was four years maybe 6,500 miles old because the car wouldn't align because of the slop in the lower control arm bushings, that was my 79' Camaro, but the theory is the same

I thing I'm going to stick with the rubber because thats what the car came with and i dont want it to squeak.

 

[Fox80]

Good choice, just remember tightening the bolts after it is on the ground full weight is critical, that is the number one reason rubber bushings fail, a quality rubber bushing will have little teeth on the ends of the steel sleeve to bite into the frame, if you tighten them up with the car in full droop you will put the bushings into a half twist when you set the car down, it will rip the rubber eventually from excessive twist, I did my car by measuring from the top of the lower arm to the bottom of the frame before I tore it apart, then I assembled everything with the spring out jacked up the lower to that measurement, and tightened the bolts, makes it a little harder to get the spring in, but tightening them with the car on the ground is a pain, I always did that on the alignment rack in the garage, now I don't have that so I did it this way

 

[mhsmonte]

Good choice, just remember tightening the bolts after it is on the ground full weight is critical, that is the number one reason rubber bushings fail, a quality rubber bushing will have little teeth on the ends of the steel sleeve to bite into the frame, if you tighten them up with the car in full droop you will put the bushings into a half twist when you set the car down, it will rip the rubber eventually from excessive twist, I did my car by measuring from the top of the lower arm to the bottom of the frame before I tore it apart, then I assembled everything with the spring out jacked up the lower to that measurement, and tightened the bolts, makes it a little harder to get the spring in, but tightening them with the car on the ground is a pain, I always did that on the alignment rack in the garage, now I don't have that so I did it this way

Thanks for the advice and it sounds like I'm gonna need some railroad ties to let my car sit on so I can slid under the car!