T-5 Swap Clutch Hydraulics Options-Master Other Than Camaro?

[85 Cutlass Brougham]

I was thinking about this today. The Camaro/Firebird were not the only GM vehicles with a hydraulic clutch in the 80's and 90's. The S trucks and C/K pickups used them too. So, it stands to reason, that one of them may have had a master cylinder without the severe angle like the F car unit. Maybe even one of the FWD cars could be used to source the master from instead of the quirky F car unit. If it has the same hose attachment style, it should work with no real issues. Does anyone have a suggestion on what cars to look at for a usable master? Am I wrong about the master on the trucks? Any input would be appreciated as I am trying to figure out the best way to go about this.

 

[85_SS]

People use the F-body unit because it's virtually a bolt in with minor (F-body) pedal mods, and is a complete bolt in with JohnB's pedal. Why try to reinvent the wheel with a completely different setup? I'm sure you can make many setups work, but there will be much more custom fabrication involved and you will be making things harder on yourself. The pedals are the worst part of the job - you want to take the easiest route possible here.

FWIW, Bernie (SickSpeedMonte) I believe has an S10 master on his Monte:
http://sickspeedmonte.com/Transmission2.htm

...but he had to modify it to fit on an angle anyways. If you have the large diameter single diaphram brake booster - there is no way that a straight master will work. The angled master just barely fits on my car because of this (I actually had to remove the booster to install the master).

 

[fodoimp]

is this because of the clearance of the clutch master cylinder to the brake booster? I used gbody booster and master in mine with hydraulic clutch with 85 camaro pedals. ran into an issue with the feed line that goes into the top of the clutch master hitting right into the bottom of the booster. I had to reroute and run an lines to make it work. I dont like how I have it setup but what is a better solution? I cant find anyone who has done the swap to give me a solid answer on what they did to make that line clear the booster.
Im running an 86 cutlass booster master setup

85ss do you have or can you take pics of how yours looks at the booster clutch master area
thanks.

 

[85_SS]

I used 93-97 hydraulics in mine and it is VERY close, but it does fit. I had to remove the booster and install the clutch master first. With a dual diaphram booster, there should be plenty of clearance. I think the single diaphram was only used in 85/86 for whatever reason.

Here's a pic with the clutch master installed and the booster removed:

 

[85 Cutlass Brougham]

So you can use it on an angle and still have it hit the pedal in such a way that the pushrod goes in straight? I was worrying that it would cause an angularity problem that would kill the Camaro master. I remember that the factory setup in my friend's Camaro killed the master quite often due to a worn out bushing in the clutch pedal. I guess I'll have to go look at a 3rd gen when I go to the junkyard Monday and see how it is installed. So far, I have my transmission, bellhousing, shifter, clutch, trans mount, and a T-5 yoke. I might try to fab the pedal box when I pull the dash to fix the A/C and install cruise control. That way I can set it aside until I can afford the rest of the stuff I need to finish the job. (The paint and body really dented the budget, so the dying Th2004R will have to do-for now) I just want to figure out the best way to do this so I can hunt down the right parts at cheap prices when I find them. I wonder if the Camaro's old flywheel is still sitting around somewhere...

I am also wondering how well the pedals are positioned for heel and toe downshifting with the swapped in Camaro parts vs using a modified set of G body pedals? The brake and clutch pedals look a little high compared to the accelerator in the link you provided.

 

[85_SS]

Yes, the F-body pedals are designed to be used with the master at that angle (the same as they were in the F-body itself). I am using JohnB's pedal, but the F-body pedals would work in the same manner - from what I have read, the mods required on them are the mounting holes and slightly adjusting the pin the master rod attached to.

A T-5 yoke is the same as a 200-4R - you just need to shorten the driveshaft 3". Do not route the cruise control in the factory location - this is where your clutch master will get bolted. I think the garage scene site has tips on where to re-route the cruise.

Hard to get a good pic under the dash, but here's one showing the master rod connected to the clutch pedal:

...and here's the best pic I have of the pedals installed:

 

[85 Cutlass Brougham]

Thanks! I knew that the cruise needed to be re-routed, but I find it nice that the hole for the clutch master is essentially marked by the sound deadener mat under the dash with the hole for the cruise wiring. I think I am going to try to do it with the F body pedals for the simple fact that it is cheaper. I have found new G body pedals on E-Bay for $99, so I guess that will be my second option if the F car stuff doesn't work out.

I do have another question: Do you need to reinforce the firewall where you attach the master? I am imagining it is a good idea, but I wonder if it is sufficiently thick enough to avoid fatigue cracks over time without the added metal. Also, is it exactly 3 inches that needs to be removed? If so, I can go ahead and have my extra driveshaft shortened that amount before I begin the actual swap so I don't have the car down for an extended period of time.

 

[85_SS]

Factory A/G-body pedals won't work without more extreme modification - the shape is completely wrong.

I haven't heard of anyone reinforcing the firewall, but F-bodies did have braces that install from the master mounting bolts up to the pedal hinge area. I have a set but haven't gotten around to installing them.

Driveshaft length for a T5 with a 7.5"/7.625" rearend is 49.5" centre to centre, cut down from 52.5" stock. Take another inch off if you have an 8.5" rear.

 

[85 Cutlass Brougham]

I will have to pull the parts from an F body and see how I can make them work then. I plan on using the whole pedal box in my car and installing it in a dry run when I remove the front clip and dash to finish fixing/sealing the A/C box and vents, and install the cruise. I guess I am lucky in that my car has not seen regular daily driver duty since 1998, so I can take my time with these side projects.

 

[85cutlassdennis]

I did the same swap about 5 years ago, i had to make my pedal brackets and pivots. the only thing you have to remember is that the master has to have full travel so the clutch will fully release and engage. and i used the 5-speed trany and clutch master and slave out of out of a firebird (p.s)dont forget the heat shield for the slave