Thinking About A Sportbike Engine Swap in a Car...

[85 Cutlass Brougham]

You should see the video of that thing racing a Dodge Viper on Dmotor (Germany's Top Gear). It's just amazing. He's also built a number of cool cars like a Mini with a VTEC swap, and the Mini pickup in the video, which has been converted to AWD using a Honda City (I think) powertrain.

 

[Uncletruck]

I would use either the flat 4 cylinder Honda Gold Wing engine, (Pre-1988, easy to find) or another good one is the Honda GL650 V twin engine from 1983 but its not easy to find. Both these are water cooled, lightweight, longitiudinal splined output shafts, around 90 HP for the Wing engine, 75 for the GL650 V twin. They make gobs of torque, and are among the most reliable cycle engines ever made. They don't have to be wound up like banchees to make power, and they run/idle smooth and are quiet- esentially little automotive engines in themselves rather than your typical cycle engine. The CX/GL 500 V twin has been used along with the above for microcars also, but it's only 50 HP- still has that great torque though and they are easy to find as they were made '78-82. Another good thing with the CX/GL 500 and 650 is they have mounting bosses both above and below on the cases, the bottom ones were cast and drilled but never used on the bikes. I've always had a pipe dream to build a little rail frame car using one of these engines.

-UT-

 

[85 Cutlass Brougham]

Well, part of the reason I want a bike engine is that I like throwing revs, and 11,000+ RPM's in a car would be cool. The wonderful sound it makes is part of the charm. An inline 4 is also far easier to package in the narrow confines I would be working with. Plus, it would have a real intimidation factor at the stop light or test and tune night at the dragstrip. A 200hp (300 with turbo?) mid-engined microcar would blow the doors off of many specially prepped drag cars built from Chevelles, etc. due to the low weight. It would also out handle them, be more fuel efficient and more reliable if done right. Once I sell my AMC Spirit in a few months, I will have some money left over, and I may well do this. The only obstacle to overcome is getting a Trabant or two imported, titled and able to be registered and insured. My alternate small car of lust is the original Austin Mini, but that I would keep FWD and just swap in a Honda B series instead. Then again, I could build a Yugo GV but...naaah.

 

[2000.malibu.ls]

Well, the Hayabusa makes 197hp in a 140lb engine, and has 1300+cc's. However, torque is a liability in such a beast, not an asset, so eliminating low end torque is a good thing. The car does not have enough weight to plant the tires on launch (1350lbs stock), and excess torque would make it less controllable. There are just so many wonderful variables to consider here (remember: this is more brainstorming than something I can do right now). Would you put the engine up front, driving the front wheels, or maybe mid mounted driving the back? I think the second option would yield a more controllable car, so I will discuss it here. Oh, and a Trabant is shorter (height) than a Smart Fortwo with a longer wheelbase, so it would be a bit more controllable. Plus, the roof is Duraplast, not metal, so the center of gravity could be kept low. The engine would low mount in the chassis, and a flat gas tank could be placed low in the car (under the hood or trunk floor, wherever it needs to be for balance), thus keeping most of the mechanical weight at about seat bottom level. Another neat thing about this car is that the front suspension, etc. all bolts to a detachable subframe, like a 1966 Chevy II. When fabricating the replacement subframe and suspension, it could be TIG welded from aluminum to cut another 20-40lbs off the nose. Ideally, the car would have a perfect 50/50 weight distribution when finished. The issue of a cooling system needs also to be addressed, as if it were mid engined, a helper pump would be needed inline with the cooling system. Additionally, lines would need to run under the car to get coolant from the former engine bay to the engine behind the front seats.The lines would be finned, to take advantage of the air passing over them to add additional radiator area. Now you could run a radiator next to the engine behind the front seats, and to the side, similar to a Fiat 850. It would get air from a tunnel under the car, and the whole engine area could be covered with a metal cover that would have sound insulation on it, like a Crown V8 conversion for a Corvair. Then we come to the issue of more power. Of course, 200hp in a 1350lb car is a little on the weak side. What it would really need is a turbo and intercooler for around 300hp, or roughly the equivalent of a 700hp G body in terms of power to weight ratio. But, where to mount the intercooler? A front mount in a "Pac Man" configuration with the radiator would be a good use of space, but would add too much tubing. It could draw air from under the car to keep a stock silhouette too. Oh, I forgot one detail: The quarter panels are not integral to the car's structure like most unibody cars. They unbolt like a Saturn. So, they could be hinged up to gain more access to the drivetrain if needed.

I will also add that should I actually go through with building such a beast, anyone who wants to help build it would be more than welcome. I figure there should be at least a few people as crazy as me who would just like to participate in building such a beast.

haha ill come down to tampa for a couple day lol

 

[itsnotanova]

I'm not sure if this was already mentioned, but have you thought about using an old bug? I think they weigh less than 2000lbs and there's a huge aftermarket for them. You could also maybe find a dune buggy that's lighter and has more room in the back for what ever motor you want to use. You could even probable find an old one for the spare change in your couch.

 

[78mali350]

haha this sounds like an awesome build! i just wish i was close enough to take part in it

 

[85 Cutlass Brougham]

As far as an old bug goes, it's too damn common a car to see fast. If I were to actually go through with this, I would want something that screams "FREAK!!!". Something so uncool it has anti-style, thus making it cool. So, since Bugs can be cool, it rules them out. It would have to be something so lacking in style that it could only be dreamed up by a government committee. In America, that generally means 90% of GM's output during the 1980's (Celebrity and it's clones!), or a Yugo. Then there is also the French option ( Renault 10, Renault Dauphine, Citroen 2cv, etc.) plenty ugly and odd, but not quite odd enough. Plus, save the 2cv and the Yugo, they are all too heavy to really work with a bike engine. The 2cv has anti-style, but let's just face it: It looks like a mutant cockroach! Only a choice few cars ever made would have a chance of really working in this configuration. They have to have enough width compared to wheelbase to be somewhat stable, have a low center of gravity (or easily lowered one) and weigh under 1400lbs. This leaves the Trabant, the Mini, the Honda Z600, Fiat 500/600, maybe a Spridget, maybe a Porsche 914, and possibly a Zaporozhetz 968 or 965 (but probably not.)

Now, there are bike enigned cars that you can buy new, but their legality in this country is questionable. Most use a variant of the Hayabusa engine, but some use a Honda CBR. If you are curious as to what they are, here's the list off the top of my head for anyone wishing to Google the names: Radical SR8, Caterham 7 or Lotus 7, Xbow, and the Civic engined Ariel Atom. There is even a V8 version of the Hayabusa engine made by a British firm that is used in a 500hp Caterham. Yes, a 1300lb car with 500hp. Let that sink in a minute and ponder the awesomeness of such a death trap! Top Gear tested it, and it is faster than a Bugatti Veyron around their track.

Oh, and in my research, as of now it looks easier to use a Honda CBR 1000 engine than a Hayabusa. I found one on Craigslist for $300 complete and running. It's a 2005 model and puts out 178 hp stock at 12,000 rpm. From the pics I have seen, the transmission is not part of the block, which makes it easier to adapt to an automotive transaxle from a FWD car. I was thinking Sentra SE-R as it is a cheap trans with a limited slip diff as standard equipment. I could also use a DSM or Honda trans if I need a reverse rotation transmission (they both use reverse rotation engines in a FWD application).

I may never actually get to do this, but I hope I can inspire some people to think of alternate ways to approach a problem. If I can, these little mental exercises will be worth it to me.

 

[joe_padavano]

It's been done many times:

http://thekneeslider.com/motorcycle-powered-cars/

 

[85 Cutlass Brougham]

Well, I know that it has been done before, I was posting it to discuss it with other people. I don't think it has been done with a Trabant though, and I have tried to search for one that has been built this way. Maybe it's my lack of understanding of German that keeps me from finding it though.

Anyhow, I have also been thinking of how to do an air conditioning system with a bike engine too, as it would be nice to have A/C in the little b*st*rd. Does anyone know of an OEM application of an electrically driven A/C compressor? I figure that there is no accessory drive off the front of a bike engine, and I think they have the starter and alternator as one unit. However, I am thinking an electric A/C compressor is a better idea as it could be put under the hood, along with a compact condenser and a fan to run an underdash A/C system. A secondary alternator could be driven off the chain drive that I would run to the transaxle to add additional charging capacity, and a large capacity battery could be used as a buffer when the car is not moving. Or, if I somehow figured out how to use a normal automotive clutch, flywheel and starter, the alternator could be run as a direct drive off the flywheel's ring gear teeth in constant mesh. Either way, the electric A/C solves the technical problem of the RPM limitations of a typical compressor as divorcing it from the engine would not allow it to overspeed. As for power steering, a modern electric system off a hybrid could be used, but it is not really necessary in a car with a mid or rear engine and would only add mechanical complexity.

 

[itsnotanova]

You threw some cars out there that if I saw I might remember seeing them before but some of them I draw a blank. What about old volvo's? I don't know volvo's that well but there's one that kind of looks like an old VW bug,but not very freakish or sexy. There's another volvo that is kind of cool looking with a long hood and nice lines. Every once in a great while I will see one. They sort of resemble a datsun 240.