trans cooler

[64nailhead]

I have read that the reason they use the rad is that the coolant temp will bring the transmiison fluid up to operating temperatures quicker at start up.

What type of radiator fan are you using? Does the 2004R have a stock size or deep pan? Does the pan have cooling fins or tubes? Has the trans been rollerized as part of its build up?

AllStar performance triple pass aluminum without a transmission cooler. It has a stock pan without fins or tubes. I'm not sure what you mean by rollerized, but the phrase my transmission guy uses is it has more billet parts than non-billet parts lol.

That is one major factor, most wear occurs at cold start up. The other is that heat conduction from liquid to liquid is about 32 times faster than liquid to air heat radiation, a higher delta P. Most aftermarket external trans coolers are designed and intended to be auxiliary coolers and are marketed as such. They are not designed to be the primary and sole cooler for a trans. One can get away with bypassing the rad cooler at the expense of running a much larger external cooler. Many transmission specialists like PATC recommend keeping the rad cooler plumbed in for this reason.

I've never heard either of these statements, but it seems logical. My trans guy has no concern about an external cooler only. And FWIW, we have had to replace the 3rd/4th clutches a couple of times. Mostly due to it will make a ton of go without being near WOT, which it needs to be over 70% throttle to develop max line pressure. But the turbo doesn't care where the throttle is once the motor starts making heat and rpm (air flow). It can open the gates at 50% throttle. My son drives it 95% of the time and it takes some discipline to keep the boost down with low throttle position. Hence, smoked/burned clutch packs.

 

[64nailhead]

On another note, or reason not to use the in radiator trans cooler, I'm in process of building another G-body and I'm trying to use a V8 stock radiator. I'm sure it will need all the help it can get keeping the motor cool - it won't need the added work of cooling the transmission fluid (4L80).

But I am prepared for it to not get it done though. The radiator weighs approx 4 lbs and has plastic tanks - I believe it will be a tall order with an S475 making some heat 🙂🙂

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

Some 2004R builders replace some of the bushings with roller bearings, ie rollerized.

If an in rad cooler causes your engine cooling system to overheat, then you either have really bad trans issues, engine issues, under capacity cooling system, or all 3. The fact is most transmission builders and external trans cooler manufacturers say to still use the in rad cooler in line with the auxiliary external coolers since they are auxiliary and not primary means of transmission cooling. The in rad cooler is the primary means for trans cooling since it is 33% more efficient than external heat exchangers, this is why police cars use the in rad cooler in line with an external cooler setup and they live much harsher lives than a babied hotrod.

My retired P71 Crown Vic uses both an in rad cooler and external cooler stock for the ATF. It also uses a engine oil cooler that is cooled by engine coolant. So its engine cooling system cools 3 different fluids, coolant, ATF, and oil and can still chase down other cars without overheating. 9C1 Chevys such as 80's 9C1 Caprices and Malibus also use the same trans cooling setup as Ford P71s. Many of the big pickups and some 9C1s have both ATF and engine oil coolers inside their radiators. When looking at designing heavy duty cooling, following HD police package cooling designs is the way to go.

 

[scarborough]

thanks for all the advice and opinions to my question. there was a lot of good advice from everyone, so it's up to me to decide what works best for me. as always this is the place to go to for help in getting a problem solved .

the apprentice

 

[olds307 and 403]

Some 2004R builders replace some of the bushings with roller bearings, ie rollerized.

If an in rad cooler causes your engine cooling system to overheat, then you either have really bad trans issues, engine issues, under capacity cooling system, or all 3. The fact is most transmission builders and external trans cooler manufacturers say to still use the in rad cooler in line with the auxiliary external coolers since they are auxiliary and not primary means of transmission cooling. The in rad cooler is the primary means for trans cooling since it is 33% more efficient than external heat exchangers, this is why police cars use the in rad cooler in line with an external cooler setup and they live much harsher lives than a babied hotrod.

My retired P71 Crown Vic uses both an in rad cooler and external cooler stock for the ATF. It also uses a engine oil cooler that is cooled by engine coolant. So its engine cooling system cools 3 different fluids, coolant, ATF, and oil and can still chase down other cars without overheating. 9C1 Chevys such as 80's 9C1 Caprices and Malibus also use the same trans cooling setup as Ford P71s. Many of the big pickups and some 9C1s have both ATF and engine oil coolers inside their radiators. When looking at designing heavy duty cooling, following HD police package cooling designs is the way to go.

Our 82 Diplomat had all of the above plus also had a power steering cooler and a huge alternator for the time as well, 120 amp I believe and about 1.5 the size of the usual Chrysler 65 amp at best.

 

[454GrandPrix]

i'm in the process of ordering a tran cooler for a olds 455 with a 350 transmission . looking to buy the hayden 678 or 698, would like to know if there is a big difference, and maybe some advice on the best one to choose .

Because it is the larger of the two (11.31 x 13.36 x 1.91 in vs 11 in. x 9.5 in. x 0.75 in), I would choose the Hayden 698. In fact, I believe the Hayden 698 is the cooler I am running--when I bought mine, I picked the largest one Hayden built.

i'm planning on bypassing the radiator and just run the lines to the trans cooler.

This is exactly how I have mine set up.

i saw a post where someone used what seem like a inline filter is that something to also consider doing.

That was probably me. Running an external fluid filter is a habit I picked up back when I used to drag race my turbo Caravan, and I was merciless to that transmission. I would change this filter (and the fuel filter) every year as preventive maintenance.

Here is my setup--does it look familiar?

(Since the time I took that photo, I have now removed the black crossbar in order to remove any airflow interference.)

As for temps, I can only say this: my setup seems to do a great job at keeping my 4L80E cool. My EZ-TCU controller can display the trans fluid temp. In the three years the car has been running, I have never seen my trans fluid get hotter than 165^, and that includes our desert summers with ambient temps over 100^.

FYI

 

[fleming442]

I don't see how that dinky in-rad trans cooler could possibly do much for heating or cooling purposes. Ever seen one? Here:

I put the biggest Derale I could find in.

 

[scarborough]

I don't see how that dinky in-rad trans cooler could possibly do much for heating or cooling purposes. Ever seen one? Here:
View attachment 139454
I put the biggest Derale I could find in.
View attachment 139455

ec
thats is a big tran cooler. but my question is the size more important than the design when it come to its maximum cooling ability.
i pickup my 698 yesterday, and i thought it would be a lot bigger in size than it was. my car will only be a daily driver with some highway time to go checkout car show and maybe visit relative down south..... so keep the wisdom and knowledge flowing guys .

 

[fleming442]

I thought I read that stacked plate is better than tube and fin.... Or, is it th he other way around? 🤔

 

[melloelky]

I don't see how that dinky in-rad trans cooler could possibly do much for heating or cooling purposes. Ever seen one? Here:
View attachment 139454
I put the biggest Derale I could find in.

dang,i had no idea it was that small.did you just pull it out of the pool or something??
good info.