What questions should I ask? (NEW QUESTION 6/3)

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LIVE4RDO

Apprentice
Jul 14, 2010
84
2
18
Staten Island, New York
If I'm keeping the car, it would have to be painted.

I am new and completely clueless (just like with the rest of the car) when it comes to painting.

What questions should I ask?

What brand of paint should I ask for?

How many coats of paint/clear I should demand?

What else?

Thank you.

6/3 NEW QUESTION:

Well, the progress has started. I've seen my inner fenders painted, but with that new question came up.

The body shop told me that they used two coats and that the clear is mixed in already. Is that sufficient? Everywhere I read, there are few coats of color and then few coats of clear.

Thank you.
 
Re: What questions should I ask/or things I should demand?

You should look for a reputable shop, ask around from others who have had their vehicle repaired and painted in your area.
If someone came into my shop and demanded this and that or told me how to do the job or with what products, I wouldn't be interested in doing work for them.
A quality shop knows what they are doing and will advise the best procedure, just tell them what you would like.
 
Re: What questions should I ask/or things I should demand?

What would I like? 🙁 What is considered to be a quality paint job? How many coats of primer, base, clear? Thank you.
 
Re: What questions should I ask/or things I should demand?

LIVE4RDO said:
What would I like? 🙁 What is considered to be a quality paint job? How many coats of primer, base, clear? Thank you.
As was said prior, a "good" shop will tell you what it takes to make a good paint job. Theres plenty of shops that will spray some paint and clear and wipe it off and push it out the door...but the better ones take more time and put on several coats of base and clear, wet sand, polish, etc. A lot depends on your budget, the amount of prep work involved, and what you are looking for, quality wise. Id get a least 3-4 quotes from different shops, ask them for a customer list so you can see their work and talk to their customers, etc. Good shops will brag about their work and gladly give you names and numbers of their customers who they have satisfied in the past. Good luck!
 
Re: What questions should I ask/or things I should demand?

bill said:
...ask them for a customer list so you can see their work and talk to their customers, etc. Good shops will brag about their work and gladly give you names and numbers of their customers who they have satisfied in the past. Good luck!
I have heard to try to check out a black paint job, because it is the most difficult color ... is there truth to this :?:
 
Re: What questions should I ask/or things I should demand?

RITTER said:
bill said:
...ask them for a customer list so you can see their work and talk to their customers, etc. Good shops will brag about their work and gladly give you names and numbers of their customers who they have satisfied in the past. Good luck!
I have heard to try to check out a black paint job, because it is the most difficult color ... is there truth to this :?:
I can only speak from personal experience....Black is the hardest paint job to get flawless. It shows everything, ripples, waves, color blemishes..etc. My grandfather had his '30 Pierce Arrow painted back in the early 70's and it cost him about 7grand. They put 10 coats of black enamel/laqauer paint on the car, which was about the size of a modern Suburban...and hand wet sanded the finish. Took about a month to paint it. It was an multiple award winner...and now sits in a museum in CA.
 
Re: What questions should I ask/or things I should demand?

A few questions that you could ask:
How much is it going to cost?
When can I pick it up?
How long will you stand behind your work? If someting goes wrong with the paint in 6 months, peel, loose all shine, or rusts out will he fix his problem.
Go check out some local shops or ask around at some local car shows where you will get a paint job that you will be happy with.
A couple questions for you:
How much are you willing to spend on a paint job? Are you looking for a show car finish or just a daily driver paint job? Do you want trim and mouldings removed before paint or just masked and painted? How much bodywork does your car need?
To get a good, quaility paint job it will cost you a few bucks. But you get what you pay for.

Sorry for the paragraph.
Chris
 
Re: What questions should I ask/or things I should demand?

The fewer coats of material, the better. There is no reason to add extra coats once hiding is achieved, it in fact makes the paint MUCH easier to chip. Every refinish class I've been to says no more than 12 mils is acceptable. That's 12/1000 of an inch. Most OE cars leave the plant with around 8-9 mils (includes sealers, basecoat, clear, and chipguard). One refinish without priming puts you at the limit.

Paint brand isn't nearly as big a deal as the type and the fact that it's from a quality line.

A lot depends on (realistic) expectations and projected use. Single-stage urethane is OK if the car is garaged and kept polished and waxed. It will, however fade/chalk if exposed to the elements day in day out over several years. It is cheaper than base/clear, however.

Base/clear when properly prepped and applied is probably the most stable/best choice for a daily driver car. It is more expensive than single-stage

There are other choices..lacquer, enamel, catalyzed enamel...none of which are wasting the effort on in this day and age.

Lacquer, besides being harder and harder to get, is not a stable finish. It ws the original paint on most GM cars for years...you know, the ones that have all the tiny cracks in them. In extreme cases, they have been known to look like a flagstone walk.

Enamel...all the downside of single-stage, plus the added treat that it's not very forgiving of anything less than a painter's best effort/attention. Catalyzed enamel is only slightly better....but it does chip more easily.

Here's the biggest problem....finding a shop/someone who knows what the hell they're doing that will entertain working on a 30 year old car. Ours won't, and some of the reasons are: Few people are willing to spend the money/time required to do it right. In all reality, if it's a 30 year old car, the paint on it now needs to come off if you expect a first-rate result. Nobody I know in the business will warrant paint performance when applied over original paint, unknown refinish paint, unknown prior repairs, unknown "all I need is for you to shoot it, it's all ready to paint" workmanship/materials.

Beware the guy that will paint it cheap, and wants a deposit. There are horror stories all over automotive forums about this scenario. In reality, if he's in the business, he should be able to swing the materials in the following plan.
Upon acceptance of the written agreement that will specify the exact procedures to be done, he takes the car. After the work has been started and progressed to a selected point (i usually reccommend after stripping and etch/epoxy prime) payment is made for the time/materials billed to that point. This way, you pay for work done, and he is good on expenses to that point, pretty much clearing the slate. Here's why.....the shop owner doesn't want your car. He wants to be paid for what he's done, and you certainly have every expectation that the work paid for has been done. Many times people dump WAAAAY more into a car than a shop owner will ever be able to recoup if the owner goes MIA. Likewise, if you pay a bunch up front, the money often gets spent, and the car gets put on the back burner....if not pushed outside.

OK, now the car is stripped and protected from the elements...NOW you can see the extent of the repairs required. Same plan, written agreement as to what repairs, and how much $$$. After repairs are complete, and car is in prime, settlement for work performed. If all is going well at this point, painting, reassembly, delivery and settlement of remainder of cost.

I CANNOT express strongly enough that without a written agreement, YOU WILL GET HOSED! I know, I've been around it for 20 years, and have worked in shops where it has happened. The agreement should also include projected completion date...will there be surprises?...sure, but without a deadline, it'll stall completely.

Know this...almost any collision shop that agrees to do it will use it for fill-in work when regular work is slow.....this is usually because of a couple things.Agreements with insurers are very specific about "cycle time"...if it's a 3 day job, and it takes 5 days, that affects the shop's CSI scoring, and if the customer is in a rental, the shop may have to absorb the cost of the 2 extra days of rental. Second, these kinds of jobs seldom pay the kind of times that can sstain a collision shop.

Lots of people claim all we want is to do "lucrative insurance work". The reality of it is, insurance work isn't very lucrative, BUT, it is plentiful, and keeps the cash flow going. Most shop owners sold their soul to the insurance companies in exchage for a spot on the preferred list....so guess who's calling the shots now? If you were to dare to attempt to exercise control over the situation, you would very soon find yourself standing in an empty building. I work with a painter that tried that very thing...like I said, he USED to own his own shop.

The reality of it is people are cheap... and first-rate workmanship requires first-rate compensation. Take intake manifolds, do you really think a knockoff intake is as well designed, tested, and finished as, say, an edelbrock? People see Maaco commercials and honestly BELIEVE they can get an OE quality finish for $299. That'll barely buy the periphial materials for the job.
 
Re: What questions should I ask/or things I should demand?

Wow, Ribbedroof. You nailed it. Answered ALL my questions. Thank you. :respect: :notworthy: :notworthy:
 
Re: What questions should I ask/or things I should demand?

New question:

Doors on or off? Spoke to the body shop today, they were very receptive to everything, but the owner is trying to talk me out of removing the doors to paint the inside jambs.

What is your opinion?
 
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