Wheel Spacers

[patmckinneyracing]

I already welded in a length of roll cage pipe between the frame rails in the area where the frame is gonna get notched. I welded it in a while back because I figured even if I didn't notch the frame, the reinforcement from that pipe would add strength to the frame.

 

[jrm81bu]

A notch may be more ideal, but will the wheel look too tucked?

 

[patmckinneyracing]

It will look the same, but I know these ralleys had a 255/60 or 70 on them and they were hitting the frame.

 

[joe_padavano]

Wasn't it Forrest Gump that said, what stupid is, is what stupid does.

And again, NO to Aluminum.
You know how wheel manufacturers tell you to recheck lug nuts every few hundred miles.
Well you'll now double what the reason it.
Aluminum will compress and the lug nuts will gull into the surface, but now that will happen on both sides.
Steel wheel spacers up to 1/2" are OK with extended studs.
Adapters, NEVER! Even if its to center the load onto the bearings again!!
For every 3 people whom say they never had a problem, you'll find one that did, just google it, those odds are not in your favor and specially if something happens at higher speeds.

Wow. I guess you never use aluminum wheels then, either.

Check out MIL-HDBK-5. You'll find out that aerospace grade aluminum spacers/adapters (7075, for example) have a HIGHER compressive, tensile, and yield strength than the mild steel hubs that they are bolted to. As for hub-centric spacers, perhaps the reason you find more complaints on the web is because those are the only people who post about them. People happy with their items usually don't waste the time writing about it. And how many of the complaints are actually due to idiots using the product incorrectly.

You're welcome to your opinion, it just doesn't have any logic behind it.

 

[pontiacgp]

Wasn't it Forrest Gump that said, what stupid is, is what stupid does.

And again, NO to Aluminum.
You know how wheel manufacturers tell you to recheck lug nuts every few hundred miles.
Well you'll now double what the reason it.
Aluminum will compress and the lug nuts will gull into the surface, but now that will happen on both sides.
Steel wheel spacers up to 1/2" are OK with extended studs.
Adapters, NEVER! Even if its to center the load onto the bearings again!!
For every 3 people whom say they never had a problem, you'll find one that did, just google it, those odds are not in your favor and specially if something happens at higher speeds.

The reason why any wheel nut can loosen is the wheel expanding from heating up and stretching the stud then cooling down The thermal expansion rate of aluminum is far greater than that of steel and that's why the issue arises more often than with steel wheels. We use 1/2" studs on our race car and the wheels are tightened before it heads out for some test laps. When it comes back and we let it cool down in we always get a 1/4 turn or more out of each nut and that's on a steel wheel. The aluminum spacer does not compress, it expands and that could cause a problem if the wheel studs are not able to withstand the stretching. If you want to run a 1" aluminum spacer I would suggest to go to a 1/2" stud..and always use anti-seize no matter what stud your using

 

[joe_padavano]

The reason why any wheel nut can loosen is the wheel expanding from heating up and stretching the stud then cooling down The thermal expansion rate of aluminum is far greater than that of steel and that's why the issue arises more often than with steel wheels. We use 1/2" studs on our race car and the wheels are tightened before it heads out for some test laps. When it comes back and we let it cool down in we always get a 1/4 turn or more out of each nut and that's on a steel wheel. The aluminum spacer does not compress, it expands and that could cause a problem if the wheel studs are not able to withstand the stretching. If you want to run a 1" aluminum spacer I would suggest to go to a 1/2" stud..and always use anti-seize no matter what stud your using

Sorry, but your logic is wrong. Let's consider your race car with steel studs and steel wheels. Your're suggesting that the looseness of the lugs is the result of thermal expansion? How is that possible when both the studs and the wheels are steel, so the expansion rate is exactly the same?

I wonder if the looseness you're seeing could be due the fact that you're using anti-seize lubricant on the studs?

The hub-centric spacers that I recommended are 2" thick. The spacers are counterbored so that the thickness clamped between the lug nut and the hub is no thicker than on stock aluminum wheels, thus there is NO additional load on the wheel studs. The fact that the spacers are hub centric means that the shear load of the wheel on the vehicle is carried by the hub, not the studs, just as it is with stock wheels. Ironically, using lug-centric aftermarket wheels will load the studs much more than using hub-centric wheel spacers.

By the way, the expansion rate of steel is 7.3 microinches per inch. The expansion rate of aluminum is 12.3 microinches per inch. Assuming that the hubs get approximately 400 degrees F hotter, and assuming that the clamping thickness is 0.5" (which is about what it is on the 2" spacers I have), the amount of differential in the growth of the aluminum spacer (or wheel) vs. the growth of the steel stud is a whopping 0.001". That's right, exactly one THOUSANDTH of an inch. Feel free to do the calculations yourself. Wanna bet that the factory torque on the stud puts waaaay more than that stress on the stud?

Math is your friend.

 

[pontiacgp]

Joe....it's not logic...it's fact and if you don't believe me come on down to the pits and try to remove a wheel lug soon at it comes off the track with the same torque it went on with.. your right that it is all metal so the expansion rated may be similar so if the wheel is being pinched between the hub and wheel lug then the expansion forces push against both the hub which is not going compress and actually expands itself to created even more pressure. The wheel lug also expands putting pressure on the wheel, the stud also expands and stretches with the pressure against the wheel lug.....the reason for the anti-seize is to help get the wheel lug off when it comes in for a tire change without damaging the threads do to everything being under pressure.

 

[joe_padavano]

Joe....it's not logic...it's fact and if you don't believe me come on down to the pits and try to remove a wheel lug soon at it comes off the track with the same torque it went on with.. your right that it is all metal so the expansion rated may be similar so if the wheel is being pinched between the hub and wheel lug then the expansion forces push against both the hub which is not going compress and actually expands itself to created even more pressure. The wheel lug also expands putting pressure on the wheel, the stud also expands and stretches with the pressure against the wheel lug.....the reason for the anti-seize is to help get the wheel lug off when it comes in for a tire change without damaging the threads do to everything being under pressure.

One more time and I'm done. With steel wheels and steel lugs, there is ZERO relative growth between the stud and the wheel. That's physics. With aluminum wheels and steel studs, there is 0.001" growth in the thickness of the wheel relative to the stud. That's well documented engineering. If you are seeing either loosening or tightening (and from your various posts, I can't tell which) then it is caused by something else. Possibly lubricant and vibration.

 

[khan0165]

that's not "physics"... it's metalurgy and thermodynamics.
... you need to consider the metalurgical composition of each... You need to consider the brittleness and ductility of each and if they have previously been thru a hardening process from quenching or heating.

... you can't just say "because they are both "steel" they have same rate of expansion". We all know steel is made of many different cobinations of Iron and additives, and each with different heat forming processes.

maybe someone needs a review of the AISI/SAE Materials Specification charts...

 

[itsnotanova]

Ford Dually trucks came from the factory with 3.5 inch wheels spacers in the front. I haven't seen any of them have problems. I run spacers on my bu so I could use corvette wheels and I haven't had any problems either. The problem I see with the kind I got was that the studs where pressed in from the back of the spacer. I could see someone easily over tightning the lug nut and stripping the steel stud in the aluminum spacer. Your kind of screwed if you find out while you're on the side of the road and you can't get your tire off without removing the axle shaft and all. My plan is to some day drill a small key slot in between the stud and the aluminum spacer to lesson the chance of that happening to me.