Why do so many frown upon swapping Chevy engines into Olds?

[V6UnderPressure]

Re: Why do so many frown upon swapping Chevy engines into Ol

I've already decided to do a chevy build due to all the unbelievably cheap performance options. From all the research I have done, I don't see how anyone could say they could build an olds to the same hp as a Chevy for cheaper. I think I answered my own question, paint the Chevy block gold, which I will gladly do. Can you say sleeper?

 

[KrisW]

Re: Why do so many frown upon swapping Chevy engines into Ol

...I don't see how anyone could say they could build an olds to the same hp as a Chevy for cheaper...

Well, here is what you can do for us, to help us all see the truth, one way or the other. As you build up your cheaper Chevy HP build, please do document all costs associated with the build up. Price of all the parts, machining, labor and assembly, and on and on.

If you do that, I think you'll end up being a lot closer to the Olds price in total than you think.

Either way, its your car and you are the one that needs to be happy with it. Might I suggest that if you don't already have an engine to start with, you start with a late model L31 Vortec long block? Its the best handicap I can give you for the comparison!

Good luck man, let us know how it turns out!

 

[G-Body_Vet]

Re: Why do so many frown upon swapping Chevy engines into Ol

I got my feet wet wrenching on SBC's because my dad always bought Chevy when I was growing up. I just got bored with them and got into the BOP engines.

I can support some of the points KrisW said too. The machinist building my Pontiac said the older sbc's usually need the most block work and are the worst with core shift. But...he said he can build one helluva small block too.

If I had another SS or Malibu, I'd run a bowtie in it....or something LS based anyway.

 

[V6UnderPressure]

Re: Why do so many frown upon swapping Chevy engines into Ol

...I don't see how anyone could say they could build an olds to the same hp as a Chevy for cheaper...

Well, here is what you can do for us, to help us all see the truth, one way or the other. As you build up your cheaper Chevy HP build, please do document all costs associated with the build up. Price of all the parts, machining, labor and assembly, and on and on.

If you do that, I think you'll end up being a lot closer to the Olds price in total than you think.

Either way, its your car and you are the one that needs to be happy with it. Might I suggest that if you don't already have an engine to start with, you start with a late model L31 Vortec long block? Its the best handicap I can give you for the comparison!

Good luck man, let us know how it turns out!

I was actually looking at the Vortec. Is the vortec a decent motor for hp? I'm trying to get 450-500 naturally aspirated if possible out of a 383 stroker.

On a side note, a simple look at Mondello as well as Dick Miller basically tells me I can get the same build out of a chevy for 6k instead of 9-10k for the Olds. This is just an example. BUT, if you are a subscriber to I believe Hot Rod magazine, their last issue had an article of the 20 best V8's of all time. The Olds Rocket was ranked 16th. Which I think is pretty commendable. Chevy small block? Number 1. Affordability to build today? Chevy small block number 1. Easy to work on? Chevy small block, number 1. I'm sure you can get an olds build done for close. But I'll take the word of people who have been doing this for years over any shadetree mechanic. No offense as I myself am a shadetree. Not to mention, summit racing has an unbelievable selection of small block chevy parts, rotating assemblies, long blocks etc. If you search for the olds 350 rocket you may find an oilpan. :lol: But anyhow, I've done quite a bit of research on this, and if you can build an olds for close to the same price, you've either cut corners or gotten free parts. I'm going Chevy, no if ands or buts about it.

By the way, does anyone make a supercharger for an olds 350? Been having no luck finding one. Since I would like to supercharge it in the future, it's just another reason to go Chevy.

 

[KrisW]

Re: Why do so many frown upon swapping Chevy engines into Ol

...Is the vortec a decent motor for hp? I'm trying to get 450-500 naturally aspirated if possible out of a 383 stroker...

The vortec L31 is the best FACTORY long block to start with. Naturally aspirated you can hit 450 HP with the stock block and heads. The blocks are an excellent casting and the cranks are pretty good too. You'll need to check the rods, you want the PM (powdered metal) rods which some Vortec engines got from the factory, some LT1 engines got them too. You'll have do some mods to the heads, cut the valve guides down so that you can run a high lift cam, the beehive springs, and then do your porting and polishing. To hit 500HP NA in a Chevy you'll need new crank and rods, and aftermarket heads too.

...But anyhow, I've done quite a bit of research on this, and if you can build an olds for close to the same price, you've either cut corners or gotten free parts...

Nope. Olds engines can use the factory parts to 500 HP that you would have to replace to run a Chevy. If I get some light machine work done to the block, it will be no more than a good Vortec Chevy core will cost, and probably less actually. I won't have to buy a new rotating assembly, but the Vortec guy will. At the most, I might lose a rod that doesn't qualify after I measure it out, and I can buy used good rods, reconditioned, instead of more expensive aftermarket stuff. The piston prices are not too different. I can run stock "C" code big block heads on my Olds 350 that will outflow any set of Vortec small block heads. Then I just need a Performer RPM intake so that I can match the massive ports in the head to the intake properly. If I want to spend the extra money I saved by not buying a crankshaft, I can put that money towards Edelbrock aluminum big block heads.

...By the way, does anyone make a supercharger for an olds 350? Been having no luck finding one. Since I would like to supercharge it in the future, it's just another reason to go Chevy.

If you contact the ProCharger guys, they can get you set up. I have seen the Buick 350 and big block setups on cars, and I am sure that they make them for Olds as well. Even if they didn't, it's just a custom plate bracket away from mounting it up.

So really it just comes down to how much effort you are willing to put in yourself, versus how much you have to pay someone else to do it for you. Its all just a matter of choice.

 

[V6UnderPressure]

Re: Why do so many frown upon swapping Chevy engines into Ol

...Is the vortec a decent motor for hp? I'm trying to get 450-500 naturally aspirated if possible out of a 383 stroker...

The vortec L31 is the best FACTORY long block to start with. Naturally aspirated you can hit 450 HP with the stock block and heads. The blocks are an excellent casting and the cranks are pretty good too. You'll need to check the rods, you want the PM (powdered metal) rods which some Vortec engines got from the factory, some LT1 engines got them too. You'll have do some mods to the heads, cut the valve guides down so that you can run a high lift cam, the beehive springs, and then do your porting and polishing. To hit 500HP NA in a Chevy you'll need new crank and rods, and aftermarket heads too.

...But anyhow, I've done quite a bit of research on this, and if you can build an olds for close to the same price, you've either cut corners or gotten free parts...

Nope. Olds engines can use the factory parts to 500 HP that you would have to replace to run a Chevy. If I get some light machine work done to the block, it will be no more than a good Vortec Chevy core will cost, and probably less actually. I won't have to buy a new rotating assembly, but the Vortec guy will. At the most, I might lose a rod that doesn't qualify after I measure it out, and I can buy used good rods, reconditioned, instead of more expensive aftermarket stuff. The piston prices are not too different. I can run stock "C" code big block heads on my Olds 350 that will outflow any set of Vortec small block heads. Then I just need a Performer RPM intake so that I can match the massive ports in the head to the intake properly. If I want to spend the extra money I saved by not buying a crankshaft, I can put that money towards Edelbrock aluminum big block heads.

...By the way, does anyone make a supercharger for an olds 350? Been having no luck finding one. Since I would like to supercharge it in the future, it's just another reason to go Chevy.

If you contact the ProCharger guys, they can get you set up. I have seen the Buick 350 and big block setups on cars, and I am sure that they make them for Olds as well. Even if they didn't, it's just a custom plate bracket away from mounting it up.

So really it just comes down to how much effort you are willing to put in yourself, versus how much you have to pay someone else to do it for you. Its all just a matter of choice.

Thanks for the helpful info Kris. Can't you take an older Chevy small block and vortec heads/intake and technically have a vortec motor?

I appreciate your input on the Olds motor. But from the hours/days/years of research I have done on the older small block Chevy's, even if you built one right in front of me, I will never believe a same strength olds motor can be built as cheap as a chevy. Not trying to disagree with you, but you will NEVER convince me. I'll never believe that everything on the internet is untrue. Hey, it's my loss. :lol:

 

[CHRIS.O]

Re: Why do so many frown upon swapping Chevy engines into Ol

Vortec would be the best way to go. They are a roller engine right off the bat. To turn around and set up an old gen 1 you would be spending 5-600 for a roller retro fit kit. However vortecs don't have a mechanical fuel pump boss so you would have to run an electric pump but that still is cheaper than buying a retro roller set up. Now a days I wouldn't run a hyd flat tappet cam, not because of oil issues or anything like that but because new technology is here for a reason. Rollers are better.

 

[KrisW]

Re: Why do so many frown upon swapping Chevy engines into Ol

My problem with the older chevy blocks, particularly pre 1986, is that the machining was not done well at the factory and the cores are not as stable (not cast as well) as the newer blocks. If I didn't start with a complete Vortec long-block, which I think is 1996 and newer VIN code R, then I would at least start with the 1987 and newer stuff that uses the one piece rear main seal.

A typical older 350 block needs A LOT of machining to be right. They get something called "core shift" and basically the cylinders are not parallel next to each other and not at a perfect 90 degrees like they are supposed to. It takes real money to make an older chevy block "true" at the machine shop. It seems GM powertrain in the 80's got the technique right for the 87 and up blocks. Not all the 87 and up blocks are roller blocks from the factory, the 3rd gen cars are, but the trucks typically are not. I think there is a real horsepower advantage above 400HP with a roller valvetrain.

You can also start with a used aftermarket block. They are out there, and typically cast very well.

Oh, and I understand very well about being unconvinced. I'm the same way, and really I have a little anti-Chevy bias compared to the other GM engines. It started out as a money thing, and then it became habit hahahaha. I do EVERYTHING on a budget. A strict budget. That leaves the Chevy small block out of my plans every time. The new LS engines, though, I can get them cheap in the wrecking yard so maybe I'll do one someday. I have one in my truck, so....

 

[V6UnderPressure]

Re: Why do so many frown upon swapping Chevy engines into Ol

I hear ya. I am assuming the 87-later small blocks were majority from trucks? Also, the vortec motors are LT motors correct? I wonder if they'd need an adapter to bolt up to the 200r4? Thinking of a build for my cutlass, and painless wiring I'm sure will make it "painless". But I also need to consider engine mounts etc, and what fits good. At least I know the Gen 1 blocks will fit because they used to stuff em in the g-bodies.

 

[CHRIS.O]

Re: Why do so many frown upon swapping Chevy engines into Ol

The vortecs aren't lt engines. There would be no MAJOR difference between the actual engine block of a vortec and an older gen 1 except fuel pump boss not being drilled for a mechanical fuel pump. You can put your gen 1 timing cover on it, a one piece rear seal oil pan, and whatever sbc heads you wanted to. Although unless you had some type of aftermarket or modded head I would use the vortec heads that come on the vortec engines. You will find them in chevy trucks and vans. I don't believe they ever put a vortec in a car, not that I am aware of anyway. It will bolt up just fine to an older trans. I have a one piece rear main seal block sitting in my 86 chevy right now with an old th 350. Like I said before, the actual vortec blocks will be ready for a roller cam, and if you bought a complete one out of a junk yard you would have everything you need even the roller lifters. It is really the best way to go in my opinion.