307 to ???
- Thread starter Venga68
- Start date
- Status
Any small block Olds V8 you can get is an upgrade from your 307.
I love the Olds 350, and the 403 is great too. It really depends on your budget. The 350 is easier to get in for less money because you can make good power with the stock parts, whereas the 403 does require some modding to get the power from it that it should have.
What is your budget?
Last, what is wrong with your engine? If it is running good, you might want to look at upgrading the trans and rear end first to get the car ready for the power that is coming.
I love the Olds 350, and the 403 is great too. It really depends on your budget. The 350 is easier to get in for less money because you can make good power with the stock parts, whereas the 403 does require some modding to get the power from it that it should have.
What is your budget?
Last, what is wrong with your engine? If it is running good, you might want to look at upgrading the trans and rear end first to get the car ready for the power that is coming.
these guys are oldsmobile purists and will definitely steer you towards the oldsmobile engines. The olds engines have a specific olds sound and similar torque bands, but the parts are so much more expensive - and modification is very limited. Since you are probably not an 'oldsmobile purist' this probably doesnt matter to you! In that case, the chevrolet 350 is obviously the cheapest, easiest, and fastest thing you can do for yourself right now, and you wont have to modify the trans unless your engine is really packing some heat.
These other guys would never tell you to get the chev 350, but keeping it real - if you want to drive the car anytime SOON forget about all that oldsmobile purist stuff or your car be sitting in the garage 2-3 years before you drive it again. Worth it? Maybe. But also maybe not!
good luck to you either way!
These other guys would never tell you to get the chev 350, but keeping it real - if you want to drive the car anytime SOON forget about all that oldsmobile purist stuff or your car be sitting in the garage 2-3 years before you drive it again. Worth it? Maybe. But also maybe not!
good luck to you either way!
my thoughts
Honest when I purchased my cutlass and my 307 went out I thought sbc 350. But I learned that I can get a olds 350 for the same price and my swap would be easier(I got my motor from the junk yard). Thats why i went with a sbo 350, but your choice of sbo 350 or sbc 350 is a matter of what performance you are expecting from your car. Because you can get a olds 350 and purchase a set of 7a heads(350 not 307 heads) and you can be around the 250 hp 350 tq range if I recall and possibly more with a set of #5's if you can find them. When it comes down to motor choice imo it's what you want of of the motor...alot power tq., hp, high revs etc etc... Because honestly there is no right or wrong answer...because in the end its your car
Honest when I purchased my cutlass and my 307 went out I thought sbc 350. But I learned that I can get a olds 350 for the same price and my swap would be easier(I got my motor from the junk yard). Thats why i went with a sbo 350, but your choice of sbo 350 or sbc 350 is a matter of what performance you are expecting from your car. Because you can get a olds 350 and purchase a set of 7a heads(350 not 307 heads) and you can be around the 250 hp 350 tq range if I recall and possibly more with a set of #5's if you can find them. When it comes down to motor choice imo it's what you want of of the motor...alot power tq., hp, high revs etc etc... Because honestly there is no right or wrong answer...because in the end its your car
Pencero, I am obviously not a purist as I put a Cadillac motor in an Olds Cutlass. In fact, worse as the purists would say as I put it in the 442. A somewhat rare and collectible performance version if you didn't know. See signature and photo album if you like. You sound like you may be further from the OP's objectives on this than the died in the wool purist. IE like you have chevy blinders on. Are the benefits of the sbc the only thing you see? Are their no pros and cons to various engines? Do you blindly recommend the sbc regardless of anything? Does the OP's objective and starting point matter or only your own objective? I am asking you to objectively ask yourself.
You say the Chevrolet 350 is obviously cheapest, easiest, and fastest. What?.. "Keeping it real" here, you don't control price. He may find a running sbo for free. I found a Cadillac 500 for free. (job change led to moving from a house to an apartment and owner could not take it with him or sell it on very short notice) As Dragonist mentioned his local salvage yard was asking the same price for a sbo as a sbc which I think would be common. In fact some people just check CL have worn out scraps of sbc parts that should be recycled and they want to sell them for stupid money. Lord knows if rumor was that it may have been from a corvette or is a four bolt main block.
Its worth a mint regardless of how worn out it is or what his goals for the motor are. Yes aftermarket supply is more readily available for the sbc and new parts for the sbc are the cheapest. Not that sbo parts are expensive just that train loads of parts for the worlds most common motor make them the cheapest. Not better than everything else in the world just cheaper. That would be a pro for changing over to a sbc, generally. In this case either motor can easily and cheaply be made to meet his modest cruiser power goals so it may not matter.
Easiest and fastest? While converting to a sbc is not high up on the difficulty and time to complete spectrum its definitely not as easy or fast as swapping in another sbo, especially if he wants to keep creature comforts such as AC or cruise control. In fact even if he got the sbc for less he may end up with other issues that make the overall job more expensive and time consuming if for nothing other than running some things down. Maybe not big unsolvable issues but issues time and money none the less, at least and especially for the novice who may not have all his ducks in a row. You may know but does he? What about the power steering pump & AC compressor? Did he get all the right brackets from the donor car? Or any brackets and pulleys at all? He can't reuse his brackets or all of his exhaust as it won't hook up. What if he got the motor from CL? Did it come with motor mounts a carberator and or the right linkage? What about the battery starter and fuel lines on the wrong side? Do you factor any of this into your recommendation or does it not matter because its not what you want to see?
As I suggested maybe you are further away from the OPs goals and more purist in your own ideas or objectives than the Olds purist. Their are many people who are. They just blindly follow the herd and believe the sbc is always the best option regardless of where you coming from or wanting to get to. I believe the sbo would typically meet the OP's objectives better. At least from what we know so far.
You say the Chevrolet 350 is obviously cheapest, easiest, and fastest. What?.. "Keeping it real" here, you don't control price. He may find a running sbo for free. I found a Cadillac 500 for free. (job change led to moving from a house to an apartment and owner could not take it with him or sell it on very short notice) As Dragonist mentioned his local salvage yard was asking the same price for a sbo as a sbc which I think would be common. In fact some people just check CL have worn out scraps of sbc parts that should be recycled and they want to sell them for stupid money. Lord knows if rumor was that it may have been from a corvette or is a four bolt main block.
Its worth a mint regardless of how worn out it is or what his goals for the motor are. Yes aftermarket supply is more readily available for the sbc and new parts for the sbc are the cheapest. Not that sbo parts are expensive just that train loads of parts for the worlds most common motor make them the cheapest. Not better than everything else in the world just cheaper. That would be a pro for changing over to a sbc, generally. In this case either motor can easily and cheaply be made to meet his modest cruiser power goals so it may not matter. Easiest and fastest? While converting to a sbc is not high up on the difficulty and time to complete spectrum its definitely not as easy or fast as swapping in another sbo, especially if he wants to keep creature comforts such as AC or cruise control. In fact even if he got the sbc for less he may end up with other issues that make the overall job more expensive and time consuming if for nothing other than running some things down. Maybe not big unsolvable issues but issues time and money none the less, at least and especially for the novice who may not have all his ducks in a row. You may know but does he? What about the power steering pump & AC compressor? Did he get all the right brackets from the donor car? Or any brackets and pulleys at all? He can't reuse his brackets or all of his exhaust as it won't hook up. What if he got the motor from CL? Did it come with motor mounts a carberator and or the right linkage? What about the battery starter and fuel lines on the wrong side? Do you factor any of this into your recommendation or does it not matter because its not what you want to see?
As I suggested maybe you are further away from the OPs goals and more purist in your own ideas or objectives than the Olds purist. Their are many people who are. They just blindly follow the herd and believe the sbc is always the best option regardless of where you coming from or wanting to get to. I believe the sbo would typically meet the OP's objectives better. At least from what we know so far.
why does everyone have to be so rude? This guy post struck me more as a "I want to be able to drive the car soon rather than later and change carb after it's already in place" guy than "I have an engine stand and a lot of tools in the garage so I'm going to spend lots of time on an olds 350" guy and didnt sound interested in messing with the trans either. Whatever his goals are he didnt make a long post!
I think the olds motor is a better motor! I am not one of 'those chevrolet guys' stop profiling.
Really Im in the same position as him and see chevrolet motor go for like $200 all day - but I already tried to buy olds 350 before and it was ****ed up but the guy still wanted like $800 for it. So no I wasnt speaking from an "I build engines" perspective, I was speaking from a used parts consumer's perspective - and with no blinders too! I dont know this guy and his post is short. I know where a cad 500 is right now myself, but I dont think I'll buy it because I have enough for the engine sure, but not enough to do all the front end work on the car ! This guy struck me as not having large $ to spend on the car and moderate wrenching skills - so yea I voted chev 350 on cost premises strictly. Really I personally would take olds/cad500 anyday if money was no object - but it is
I think the olds motor is a better motor! I am not one of 'those chevrolet guys' stop profiling.
Really Im in the same position as him and see chevrolet motor go for like $200 all day - but I already tried to buy olds 350 before and it was ****ed up but the guy still wanted like $800 for it. So no I wasnt speaking from an "I build engines" perspective, I was speaking from a used parts consumer's perspective - and with no blinders too! I dont know this guy and his post is short. I know where a cad 500 is right now myself, but I dont think I'll buy it because I have enough for the engine sure, but not enough to do all the front end work on the car ! This guy struck me as not having large $ to spend on the car and moderate wrenching skills - so yea I voted chev 350 on cost premises strictly. Really I personally would take olds/cad500 anyday if money was no object - but it is
Let me just hit a few of the facts on the ground here.
First, with respect to the trans, I am offering advice based on experience. He is talking about, however slightly, horse-ing up a 403 Olds maybe, and I think a little trans freshening is in order. Its not absolutely required, but it will make itself an issue soon enough.
Ditto for the small 7.5 rear, if that's what he has. I have broken a few, myself.
As far as the engine swap, I do lean anti-Chevy and everybody knows it. My reasons are money, too. I have yet to build a Chevy that didn't require a ton of money invested in the machine shop, just on the block. Most every used Buick, Olds, or Pontiac engine that I have torn down, didn't need anything more severe than ball honing the cylinders. I am not as particular as some people, but I have had my Chevy problems. The money at the machine shop does not make up for cheap aftermarket parts.
Being practical, though, I would cede you the point on Chevy engines if the car had been equipped with a chevy engine of some type from the factory. My thinking goes something like this on budget engine swaps.
-So, you are on a strict budget but you still want a better engine? Well, I think the most cost effective solution is to stay within the same engine family. That means if the car came with a Buick V6, a Buick small block V8 fits the best because you reuse the same motor mounts, trans, entire front accessory drive, the fuel lines will be in the right place and the exhaust will most likely fit right to the manifolds. In short, nearly EVERYTHING will swap over with minimal hassles.
My examples would be:
Buick V6 cars = Buick 300/340/350
Olds V8 cars = Olds 350/403
Pontiac 265/301 V8 cars = Pontiac 326-455
Chevy V6 or V8 cars = Chevy 350/400
So, budget wise, to me it makes the most sense for the OP to use the Olds 350 that is readily available to him. If you strip the front accessory drive off of it, reuse all of the 307 accesories, it just drops right in. If the engine has been sitting a while, you strip it down, clean all the parts, ball hone the cylinders, and put it back together.
Putting the Chevy truck engine in though, even if its a runner, requires, motor mount changes to the frame, shorter car V8 engine shells for the motor mounts. Different exhuast (which he may change anyway) pipes. Possibly a different transmission (not all the 2004R units are universal bolt pattern, I have two that are non-Chevy pattern myself) which means maybe a different driveshaft and repositioning of the transmission crossmember. The truck accessories may sit too high and rub the hood or hood insulation, or they may be too wide and hit something else. The A/C hoses will have to be changed to factory Chevy equipped car parts.
I hope the OP chimes in soon to give us an update!
First, with respect to the trans, I am offering advice based on experience. He is talking about, however slightly, horse-ing up a 403 Olds maybe, and I think a little trans freshening is in order. Its not absolutely required, but it will make itself an issue soon enough.
Ditto for the small 7.5 rear, if that's what he has. I have broken a few, myself.
As far as the engine swap, I do lean anti-Chevy and everybody knows it. My reasons are money, too. I have yet to build a Chevy that didn't require a ton of money invested in the machine shop, just on the block. Most every used Buick, Olds, or Pontiac engine that I have torn down, didn't need anything more severe than ball honing the cylinders. I am not as particular as some people, but I have had my Chevy problems. The money at the machine shop does not make up for cheap aftermarket parts.
Being practical, though, I would cede you the point on Chevy engines if the car had been equipped with a chevy engine of some type from the factory. My thinking goes something like this on budget engine swaps.
-So, you are on a strict budget but you still want a better engine? Well, I think the most cost effective solution is to stay within the same engine family. That means if the car came with a Buick V6, a Buick small block V8 fits the best because you reuse the same motor mounts, trans, entire front accessory drive, the fuel lines will be in the right place and the exhaust will most likely fit right to the manifolds. In short, nearly EVERYTHING will swap over with minimal hassles.
My examples would be:
Buick V6 cars = Buick 300/340/350
Olds V8 cars = Olds 350/403
Pontiac 265/301 V8 cars = Pontiac 326-455
Chevy V6 or V8 cars = Chevy 350/400
So, budget wise, to me it makes the most sense for the OP to use the Olds 350 that is readily available to him. If you strip the front accessory drive off of it, reuse all of the 307 accesories, it just drops right in. If the engine has been sitting a while, you strip it down, clean all the parts, ball hone the cylinders, and put it back together.
Putting the Chevy truck engine in though, even if its a runner, requires, motor mount changes to the frame, shorter car V8 engine shells for the motor mounts. Different exhuast (which he may change anyway) pipes. Possibly a different transmission (not all the 2004R units are universal bolt pattern, I have two that are non-Chevy pattern myself) which means maybe a different driveshaft and repositioning of the transmission crossmember. The truck accessories may sit too high and rub the hood or hood insulation, or they may be too wide and hit something else. The A/C hoses will have to be changed to factory Chevy equipped car parts.
I hope the OP chimes in soon to give us an update!
Pencero fwiw I was not trying to attack you. Just trying to make you and other posters think before making statements and recommendations to the other far end of the spectrum. Meaning some people recommend the same brand motor as the car regardless like you said purist and some recommend sbc regardless. Sorry if I profiled. Although I did take it from the points in your post. Sounds like you took it objectively and I am glad you are posting here.
- Status
Similar threads
