35mpg city and run 14's in the 1/4

[85 Cutlass Brougham]

This is an engineering problem I have been mulling over in my head for a few years now. Can you make an actual car ( not a dune buggy! has to have a radio, A/C, seat at least 2, etc.) that will run 14's in the 1/4 and get 35mpg in the city? Since this is basically the off topic section of this forum, I post this here with no restriction on what kind of car the base vehicle should be or what kind of engine should power it other than it should run on 87 octane pump gasoline. This question is meant to generate discussion and as such, I will withhold my theoretical answers ( I have 3 or 4 cars in mind) to the question to see what everyone else can come up with.

 

[jerrycad472]

My buddy has a Neon SRT-4 with a Mopar Stage 3 kit and a few other bolt on mods. He has run a best of 13.1 on street tires. Similiar cars with slicks are running mid 11's. But they are running racing fuel with the stage 3 engaged to get those times. With Meth injection (being installed this weekend) it should be able to run the stage 3 with pump 93 octane. I think the SRT-4s are rated at mid 20's city and 30 highway for mileage.

While I know it does not meet your criteria, maybe with less agressive gearing and a retune aimed at mileage it could get pretty close.

Anyway, its my pick for a car that gets good mileage and is fun to drive. I And its relatively inexpensive. I think including the car, the power mods, coil overs and bigger wheels and tires, he still has well under $30k in it.


http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/sedans/0505_dodge_neon_srt4_stage3/

 

[85MonteCarlo305]

Actually I would think that it would be easy to run 14's and get 30 to 40 miles to the gallon. Think about it....weight. If you would put together an all aluminium motor and put a full MSD Ignition. Forced induction,like supercharger or turbo, keep the boost lower so you don't have to put in more fuel. Put on some fiberglass body panels. Make the car weigh as light as possible. Also some pretty high rear end gears. I would think that it would be pretty easy to get that maybe even out of a V-8. Considering the fact that the new Vette's are rated at almost 30 MPG.

 

[85 Cutlass Brougham]

Actually I would think that it would be easy to run 14's and get 30 to 40 miles to the gallon. Think about it....weight. If you would put together an all aluminium motor and put a full MSD Ignition. Forced induction,like supercharger or turbo, keep the boost lower so you don't have to put in more fuel. Put on some fiberglass body panels. Make the car weigh as light as possible. Also some pretty high rear end gears. I would think that it would be pretty easy to get that maybe even out of a V-8. Considering the fact that the new Vette's are rated at almost 30 MPG.

The combo I have in mind weighs around 1500-1700 lbs and has 125hp from an all aluminum L4 with variable valve lift ( dual mode cam). I have 2 or 3 cars that would take the engine in question and fit the weight end of it too. Remember that this is 35mpg in the city ( I.E pizza delivery use), not highway. I would expect highway numbers north of 40-45mpg. Another of my ideas weighs around 2,000-2200 lbs, and uses a DOHC 4 with a low boost turbo and 8 small fuel injectors. They would have 185cc's each( around 18-19lb injectors, IIRC), and 4 would only be used under boost. This is because injectors get better atomization at the higher end of their flow rating and so in theory would be able to make more power while leaving less fuel unburned. The 4 other injectors would bring the flow rate up to 370cc's ( around 37lb) which is adequate for 200-250hp in a 4. I would need a ECU with full sequential control over 8 injectors and thus 8 injector drivers. I was thinking of using a Megasquirt, but it only has 2 drivers. I did just learn that there is a way to do it with an MS though, and am researching it. I basically posted this as a challenge to think outside the box and generate discussion more than to find a real solution. I have owned cars that got 32 mpg city and over 50 hwy, but they weighed in at around 2350lbs-too heavy to be fast with 115hp. I am just curious to see if anyone else can come up with a viable solution to the problem and see what cars they come up with. Remember that you can use FWD, RWD, AWD, rear, mid or front engine, any number of cylinders including 2 or 3 instead of 4, 5,6, 8, 10, 12 or 16.It can be air cooled, water cooled, 2 stroke, 4 stroke, Wankel or even Miller cycle. The engine can come from something other than a car too. The car need not be a US model ( Saschrang Trabant 601 with a VW 1.8T perhaps?) either. It's a question to have fun with and expand your mind on.

 

[Peter]

well for a stock car, grand nationals might have the best shot of any gbody, not sure what they get for gas mileage but i would imagine it is better than the V-8's.

 

[1980Gbody]

this shep guy who lives in ohio built a dsm that ran 11's and gets 28 miles to the gallon he also built a awd dsm that runs 7's but i dont kno the mpg for that im not to into tuners even tho thats all my freinds own

 

[85 Cutlass Brougham]

What I am wondering is what the power to weight ratio of a typical 14 second car is, as that would help me do the math so to speak. DSM's run 11's all the time on mostly stock parts, especially the early 1st gen cars with the 6 bolt 4G63t and a 5 speed. A friend of mine has a 1993 Eclipse GSX with a 4G63t and an automatic, all wheel drive and we managed to drop something like 0.8 sec off the 1/8 mile time for under $100. All we did was turn up the boost using a bleed valve boost controller instead of the ECU controlled boost controller.That's with the smallest turbo they used and the smallest turbo injectors at 390cc's. However, it only gets 19mpg in the city when used as a pizza delivery car. To me, a car is a car no matter what it is and I enjoy playing with whatever is around me. I am neither a musclecar guy nor am I an import car guy. I like whatever I can play with. I have just as much fun playing with an obscure early 70's Fiat as I do with a Chevelle or a Honda Civic.

 

[1980Gbody]

thats tru i have fun taking my moms 07 jeep liberty out and taunting guys in mustangs and racing them its funny cause half the time i win

 

[85 Cutlass Brougham]

Yeah, my best lame car kill story was in my 1998 Sentra XE/1.6/5speed(115hp GA16DE). Some kid in a lowered 1986-1989 Acura Integra (115hp D16A1) with 17's and a fart cannon raced me from a traffic light. My car was brand new and dead stock down to the hubcaps and 175-70 13's(well....it did have a Domino's Pizza sign on the roof...lol). I wound up taking him by a nose, and thought it funny that his modded "sport compact" had just lost to a stock 4 door Sentra!

 

[Cole]

A typical 14 second car is in the 10-11 pounds per horsepower range. so a G body would need about 300 horse. Like a stock GN. But the physics completely defy the ability to get 35 mpg in the city.

However, is any car capable? Absolutely. I think everyone has overlooked the key component. Nitrous Oxide. The important difference between nitrous and turbocharging is that the nitrous doesn't affect how the engine consumes fuel until you push the button. With ANY boost, an engine needs more fuel.

In my opinion, the best car to start with would be a pre-70s beetle. Those cars weighed less than 1800 lbs and were rear wheel drive, making them good at the drag strip. Of course, the stock engines were garbage, but the performance aftermarket is huge for them.

From a pure numbers standpoint you need to get 180 horsepower at the strip for a beetle, but keep air/fuel consumption under 4000 liters/min in the city. You also need about 100 ft-lbs from the engine to make the car driveable at low engine RPM in traffic. So you would probably need a 2.0 liter engine or so. That should make 100 ft lbs with natural aspiration. The cam would be a limiting factor. One that maxes out around 4500 rpm would be necessery for low RPM driveability. However, if you dumped enough nitrous and extra fuel into it at the track, you could theoretically boost your torque to 200 ft lbs. 200x4500/5250=171 horsepower. Not far from what you need.

So basically, a stock 1968 beetle, with a 2.0 liter VW air cooled pancake 4 cylinder, stock gears, computer controlled nitrous/fuel injection (4 injectors, 1 per intake manifold for city use, 1 per manifold for nitrous guzzling)

Not only would this probably work, but it would be relatively easy. The hardest part would be driver restraint. You couldn't shift past 2000 rpm in the city or your mileage would drop...