403 Olds CCC Swap Gone Wrong

[88hurstolds]

Just to reiterate the factory specs I gave were for a VIN9 cam.

You might have better luck on www.realoldspower.com with Olds engine questions, the main response is going to be ditch the CCC system however it is not entirely necessary with the right combination.
There are ways of keeping the AC and lockup by deleting CCC the carb and distributor.
Few stickys here:
http://www.gbodyolds.com/forum/forumdis ... ngine-Tech

The CCC system defaults to a rich setting when it is unhooked so that's why you are getting a rich mixture.

The problem I see here is that you are not getting enough total advance with the cam/compression setup you have.
Typically a cam like that is installed 4* advanced to compensate some.
I've seen some Olds engines go as much as 38* total advance.
I don't know the specifics but I assume the CCC system probably cannot advance that much.
With the compression I am not sure swapping the cam is gonna solve your issues, you may have to delete the carb and dist....

 

[DoubleV]

I don't think that cam is too big at all. It might be too big in a 307 but in a 403 with higher CR it should still produce plenty of vacuum. Find out what your vacuum is and that should tell you. You can always advance a cam for more vacuum/low end if need be. A compression test on each cylinder might be a good idea too.

I personally would never trust an engine builder who built an engine yet only has a vague idea what the CR is. If these things weren't measured to find this out then what else wasn't measured and just assumed? This is the difference between an engine that will last and run strong vs one that won't.

Are you using the same CCC components ( sensors and such ) that were used on your 307 and did your 307 run OK with them? If you replaced some of these items then one thing to check is the MAP/DPS sensor. On some years they put out the opposite voltage vs vacuum. What I mean by that is on some years they used a MAP/DPS that would put out a high voltage when the vacuum is also high. On some years they used a MAP/DPS that would put out high voltage when the vacuum was LOW which is the opposite. You need to make sure you have the right one.

 

[jetsetw31]

X2 Double V. That cam is not the issue in a 403. Read your vacuum after you get the distributor set. I would start at 1100 rpm also, then plug the CCC up.
T

 

[jpoole]

OK, tested vacuum and it was 18 inches around 1100 rpm and set timing to 20 degrees. Going to reset the computer and put the original MAP sensor back on.

 

[jpoole]

OK, installed old MAP and reset computer.

Started and was running along on with dwell showing right around 30. Seems like it tried to go into closed loop mode as the dwell jumped to 38 and it started to act like it was going to die. Then it went down to 25 and seemed better but kept falling to 6 again. Killed and restarted it just hovered around 30.

Once the computer seems to go into closed loop it is kinda rough running when you idle it up to 1500 or so it did pop once out the back.

However this is much better than when the CCC was hooked up and I was getting the code 23. You couldn't even put it in drive, hold the brakes and give it a little gas as it would pop a few times and die.

Now I changed my MC solenoid as the one on the carb I got back from rebuild, not original carb, was showing 0 ohms when I tested and I was getting open code 23. Replaced and the code went away but it is reading 30 ohms instead of around 20.

I have another MC solenoid now that test to 23 and I think I will try to swap it this weekend.

I appreciate all the help guys,

 

[88hurstolds]

X2 Double V. That cam is not the issue in a 403. Read your vacuum after you get the distributor set. I would start at 1100 rpm also, then plug the CCC up.
T

Per my post the cam us not the issue with the 403, the cam is the issue with the CCC system.
After doing extensive research this problem has already been addressed in the past on other forums.

 

[jpoole]

Can the chip be updated to work? Seems like there was a place that could burn chips to allow stuff like this.

 

[jetsetw31]

Actually I stand on my agreement with Double V.
I think that It may be the compression. The CCC wasn't made to handle high compression engines. High compression is probably throwing the vacuum way off. A chip may help if you can find one.
T

 

[jetsetw31]

212/219 @ .050 is too much cam for the CCC system.
The factory grind is 196/208 @ .050 with .440/.440 lift and 109LSA if you get too much cam with the computer it will not run right.

210/216 @ .050 will need to be advanced 4 degrees to keep the computer happy in a 307, this is pretty much the limit of the CCC system.

Engle 2EP-15/18 207/216 @ .050 with .466/.496 lift is a good cam.

Crane also has H-260-2 204/216 @ .050, .454/.484 lift.

My understanding of the CCC is that it can't tell the size of a motor. Then with Olds engines the 403 needs a bigger cam then the cams you mentioned.

My cam is in the same range as the one in his 403, yet I have a '73 350 with #8 heads and a T-5 in my '88 CSC. I don't have, and never had any of his issues. Yes, I'm running off the stock CCC. It has a nice lope and great response.
So that is why I don't see how a cam in his range can mess with the CCC when mine is more radical and runs. The cam it not his issue in this case.
T

 

[DoubleV]

What year is this car anyway? If it's an 85 or up then that could be at least some of the problem. Those carbs were calibrated to be very lean and your 403 is going to want more fuel. Reworking the internals of the carb would be needed to address that. Also the ECM's of those years were also programed to be lean and had very wonky timing curves that worked fine on a smogged out swirlport 307 but not so much on a performance engine with normal heads.

I'll still stand by my earlier post and say that cam is not too big and it should not cause any problems running on the CCC system in a 403. It's not even about the size of the cam per se, it's all about how much vacuum and overlap you have. You want to keep the overlap to a minimum and the stock cam actually had a decent amount of overlap to begin with some of which had to do with the narrow LSA. So even a bigger cam with a wide LSA would have around the same overlap. And if it's making good vacuum at idle, then you're good to go.