8.5 in rearend

doood

Amateur Mechanic
Sep 24, 2020
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With regards to the old 7.5" rear seem to have a lot of backlash for the YouTube video I posted several posts ago... correct me if I'm wrong but the play in the pinion yoke is RATIO times the backlash measured on the ring, right? So if the backlash amounts to one arc second (example) measured at the ring, then the pinion yoke should have 3.55 arc seconds if RATIO is 3.55, right?
 

64nailhead

Goat Herder
Dec 1, 2014
5,710
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Upstate NY
With regards to the old 7.5" rear seem to have a lot of backlash for the YouTube video I posted several posts ago... correct me if I'm wrong but the play in the pinion yoke is RATIO times the backlash measured on the ring, right? So if the backlash amounts to one arc second (example) measured at the ring, then the pinion yoke should have 3.55 arc seconds if RATIO is 3.55, right?
No. There a lot of other factors involved that your calculation requires for accuracy, but you’re making assumptions about those factors being precise. And they are not precise.
 
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doood

Amateur Mechanic
Sep 24, 2020
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No. There a lot of other factors involved that your calculation requires for accuracy, but you’re making assumptions about those factors being precise. And they are not precise.
The angular rotation associated with 0.007" backlash measured on the edge of the ring feels like more angular slop with hand on yoke (parking brake locking the axles). I noticed this when I was measuring for the drive shaft. I'm reasoning the 0.007" backlash measured on the edge of the ring cuts an angle.... that angle is being multiplied through the ratio.... not the tangential displacement, which is also multiplied by the ratio, but reduced again by smaller radius of the yoke. It was an interesting observation.... I know the backlash is seven thou but it feels exaggerated chattering the yoke back and forth with axels locked... maybe some part of that 'feels extra slop' is in the internals of the carrier... it's certainly not in the splines.

Anyway, with Holley LS mounts, 5.3/4L60, and the 8.5" rear, I need driveshaft with 47.94" u-joint to u-joint center. I'll drop it off for machining on Monday.
 

69hurstolds

Geezer
Supporting Member
Jan 2, 2006
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The angular rotation associated with 0.007" backlash measured on the edge of the ring feels like more angular slop with hand on yoke (parking brake locking the axles). I noticed this when I was measuring for the drive shaft. I'm reasoning the 0.007" backlash measured on the edge of the ring cuts an angle.... that angle is being multiplied through the ratio.... not the tangential displacement, which is also multiplied by the ratio, but reduced again by smaller radius of the yoke. It was an interesting observation.... I know the backlash is seven thou but it feels exaggerated chattering the yoke back and forth with axels locked... maybe some part of that 'feels extra slop' is in the internals of the carrier... it's certainly not in the splines.

Anyway, with Holley LS mounts, 5.3/4L60, and the 8.5" rear, I need driveshaft with 47.94" u-joint to u-joint center. I'll drop it off for machining on Monday.
Did you just use MATH? STOP IT! Makes my brain hurt. :)

Regardless of the tooth shape, clearance is clearance and you're on spot realizing when you measure ring gear backlash to the pinion it's only going to be that particular clearance between those two gears because that's all you're setting up. Obviously, that's the important part. That clearance isn't going to change just because you grab the yoke or the ring gear.

But, as you suspect, there are clearances in spider gears and cross shafts (notice how easily it slipped in, which is the main reason those stupid retainer pins break off inside) and the rest of the setup that you basically are taking up ALL slop on both sides of that equation when you rock the yoke. Perfectly normal that it feels like there's more clearance than 0.007". I'm no expert, but mechanical clearance is mechanical clearance. It's all additive when you're changing directions of rotation with helical gear sets to which I believe 64nailhead was trying to allude to when he said it's not precise. Because he's right, yoke "slop" isn't. I don't know of any specification exists for yoke slop, anyway. So what's excessive?

If it's super-sloppy it may be of concern. I'm sure you inspected the wear on the other components. If there are grooves you can catch your fingernails in or chipped off teeth, that would be a concern. But normally, if you set that gear backlash up and other components are in good shape, you shouldn't have any worries.

You did a great job setting up that rear end and probably learned a few things or three you can pass on to the rest of the group with the experience you gained.

When in doubt when it comes to rear gear setups, I always try to ask an "expert" (although he can be a little grumpy sometimes). But he always does respond with good advice. His name is Jim, but goes by the screen name "Monzaz" most of the time and has setup 100s of GM rear ends in his lifetime. Even runs a forum on it and frequents other car forums under the user name "Monzaz". He's forgotten more than most people know about GM rears. Here's his website forum at jdrace.com : http://www.jdrace.com/phpbb3/
 
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bracketchev1221

Royal Smart Person
Jan 18, 2018
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There is no correlation between the 2 that you can use for an accurate backlash reading. Set it up as you are supposed to at the gear and the others will be where they fall. Yoke backlash and axle backlash are not indicators of anything. I tried to quantify that years ago as something to monitor externally but It didn't work.
 
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Built6spdMCSS

Geezer
Jun 15, 2012
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I've always measured the backlash from the Ring and always moved the Pinion only. Did that before installing Axles or anything else, which is a given if it had to come back out for shimming etc.
 

doood

Amateur Mechanic
Sep 24, 2020
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Last time I had drive shaft shortened at "Associated Truck Parts" in Newcastle Delaware in 2021, the owner charged me $100 and made a joke about pitying me for spending on project cars behind wife's back.. today I walked out $225 lighter... shoot, for another $250 I probably could have gotten a custom drive shaft from Strange shipped to my door. Might do that next time I need one.
 
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doood

Amateur Mechanic
Sep 24, 2020
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This 8.5" rear end that I built is totally silent on coast... the 7.5" that I had 'professionally built' had a whine on coast from day one... first drive no noise. I can feel the ever so slight reduction from 3.55 to 3.42. A little bit less leap. The new bushings on the rear control arms are so smooth, it makes me want to do the fronts now.
 
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art

Greasemonkey
Apr 24, 2009
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This was/is a great thread. When I was in search of a 8.5, the ones that I bought were "rode hard and put away wet". It's all that was out there. And that was over 10 years ago. The first one was in a car that wound up getting stolen and never recovered. The second was a salvage yard take out. Both were posi traction which was nice. Both needed complete brake replacement and axles. Building them is a labor of love.
Side note: Jim (monzaz) is the man. Has helped me many times over the years with parts and advise.
 
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