CUTLASS '87 Cutlass Salon

[Hurricane77]

So I'm new here and have already found this to be a very good source of info.

I used to have a 1986 Cutlass Supreme Brougham, White on Olive Green (including the Landau top), way back when I was in university (~20 years ago). It was my first 'real' car. I think I paid $2500 CAD for it back in 1998. I loved that car and have been feeling a bit nostalgic lately and decided I wanted to get another G-body Cutlass as a project. Browsing the local classified I found a 1987 Cutlass Salon for sale near me that seemed like it might be a decent candidate. So I grabbed the trailer and headed over to take a look. Body was in decent shape, rockers, door bottoms, rear frame and most of the trunk seemed pretty decent. Only area of concern (body wise) was the some rust in the trunk near the seats and looks like there had been some previous body work over the rear driver's fender. Other than that, other issues were:
- no title
- trunk lock busted out
- ignition housing busted
- ignition cylinder gone
- suspected engine fire (what appeared to be fire extinguisher residue around carb and intake manifold)
- battery terminals hacked off
- AC disconnected
- heater core hoses disconnected
- seller claims the fuel pump is bad

So it appeared to maybe have been stolen, previously on fire, and unable to start it to see if it runs. But the body was in good shape, interior is so-so and someone had put headers and a dual exhaust on it. The seller also claimed that it had a 350 in it - but I was skeptical on that. And it was cheap - $1000 CAD (~$650-700 USD) I figured what the hell. Most people around here are asking ridiculous prices and I decided to take a chance. So I paid the guy, got it loaded on the trailer and headed home.

First things first, checked the VIN in the provincial and national databases. No record of it being stolen. Good news so far. Getting a title will still be a bit of a processes, but not impossible. For that I'm waiting on a Vehicle History report from the local DMV which will list the previous registered owners. If I can locate the most recent and get them to write me a bill of sale, it will be a lot easier.

Haven't gotten it off the trailer yet, but have had a chance to a bit more investigation and a bit of work over several days. Got a battery in it and tried to bodge the bare battery cable to it to see if it will turn over. put the 'key' (actually a set of needle nose pliers) in the ignition. We've got power. Crank it over and....the starter just spins. So maybe the starter is done. Crawl under unbolt the starter and notice there's some missing teeth on the flexplate. Well crap! Put the starter back, and go grab a socket and breaker bar to see if the engine will turn and lo and behold...it turns fairly easy. Perfect, should be on some good teeth and try to start it again. Turn the key again and the starter just barely moves. So, I wanted to make sure that the starter was getting enough juice before spending money on a replacement starter. Grabbed some generic battery cables and set about installing them - which is easier said than done. The headers make getting at the starter terminal a real pain. ended up pulling the whole front outer and inner fender off to get enough access to get in there. Outer didn't actually need to come off, but I was trying to gain better access to some of the inner fender liner bolts, but it didn't help. Got the battery cable off and it was pretty obvious why the starter wasn't getting any juice. the sheathing had melted on the header and was shorting out. Got the new battery cable in and tried a third time. Turn the key again and....it's turning over.

Next up, see if it'll try and fire. Spray a bunch of starting fluid in and try again. Turn the key and this time we get some hints of ignition. It tries, but without fuel and without someone to keep spraying it obviously won't start up. Went an got a funnel and my gas can. Filled up the bowls via the chimney and tried again. Turn the key and...IT STARTS!! It actually runs! Not well mind you and it's dumping fuel out at the fuel pump but it runs. Fuel in the tank is at least several years old. Need to get that drained and figure out the fuel pump leak. The seller said it needed a new fuel pump anyway, and probably worthwhile to replace the rubber fuel line anyway. I don't really want to spend a bunch of money on this engine. Based on the casting of the block "GM 50LG" it's not a 350 like the seller claimed. But I was expecting a 305 - if it had been a 350 that would have just been a bonus. But I'm not a purist and I don't have any intention of doing much with an old 305.

Some of the other things I've learned about it:
- some of the gauges don't work
- was likely in a front end collision at some point. Front clip and hood were replaced and the whole car was painted. Original color was Dark Blue Pearl Metallic and now it's pretty much black.
- The repaired area over the drivers rear fender doesn't seem bad. Maybe 1/16 or less of filler on top of solid metal there.
- Despite some staining on the rear quarter just below the vinyl top, the metal at the edge of the trim seems solid. Need to get the vinyl off and see what underneath. The vinyl is severely cracked and can't be saved.
- some rust down at the lower passenger corner of the firewall. but not too bad at all. Nothing that can't be saved.

Next step is to get it off the trailer. Get it into the garage and start tearing some stuff down and get a much better look. But so far, I'm quite pleased with it. It's going to get a thorough teardown and a different engine. The only thing I'm sure of right now and that I want to swap the front clip for the shovel nose style. I figure that I might be able to trade someone for my 87 front clip.

And since thread are worthless without pics, here are some from the listing and a few I took after getting it home.

Sellers photos

On the trailer after getting it home

Sweet custom headliner

Interior. Rallye gauges and console shifter. Interior is rough and desperately needs detailing, But virtually complete.

That may actually be the actual mileage (~50,000km / 31,000 miles) The last reported mileage was 35,000 km back in 2005. I might get a better idea once I get the full Vehicle History from the DMV

 

[5spdCab]

So I'm new here and have already found this to be a very good source of info.

I used to have a 1986 Cutlass Supreme Brougham, White on Olive Green (including the Landau top), way back when I was in university (~20 years ago). It was my first 'real' car. I think I paid $2500 CAD for it back in 1998. I loved that car and have been feeling a bit nostalgic lately and decided I wanted to get another G-body Cutlass as a project. Browsing the local classified I found a 1987 Cutlass Salon for sale near me that seemed like it might be a decent candidate. So I grabbed the trailer and headed over to take a look. Body was in decent shape, rockers, door bottoms, rear frame and most of the trunk seemed pretty decent. Only area of concern (body wise) was the some rust in the trunk near the seats and looks like there had been some previous body work over the rear driver's fender. Other than that, other issues were:
- no title
- trunk lock busted out
- ignition housing busted
- ignition cylinder gone
- suspected engine fire (what appeared to be fire extinguisher residue around carb and intake manifold)
- battery terminals hacked off
- AC disconnected
- heater core hoses disconnected
- seller claims the fuel pump is bad

So it appeared to maybe have been stolen, previously on fire, and unable to start it to see if it runs. But the body was in good shape, interior is so-so and someone had put headers and a dual exhaust on it. The seller also claimed that it had a 350 in it - but I was skeptical on that. And it was cheap - $1000 CAD (~$650-700 USD) I figured what the hell. Most people around here are asking ridiculous prices and I decided to take a chance. So I paid the guy, got it loaded on the trailer and headed home.

First things first, checked the VIN in the provincial and national databases. No record of it being stolen. Good news so far. Getting a title will still be a bit of a processes, but not impossible. For that I'm waiting on a Vehicle History report from the local DMV which will list the previous registered owners. If I can locate the most recent and get them to write me a bill of sale, it will be a lot easier.

Haven't gotten it off the trailer yet, but have had a chance to a bit more investigation and a bit of work over several days. Got a battery in it and tried to bodge the bare battery cable to it to see if it will turn over. put the 'key' (actually a set of needle nose pliers) in the ignition. We've got power. Crank it over and....the starter just spins. So maybe the starter is done. Crawl under unbolt the starter and notice there's some missing teeth on the flexplate. Well crap! Put the starter back, and go grab a socket and breaker bar to see if the engine will turn and lo and behold...it turns fairly easy. Perfect, should be on some good teeth and try to start it again. Turn the key again and the starter just barely moves. So, I wanted to make sure that the starter was getting enough juice before spending money on a replacement starter. Grabbed some generic battery cables and set about installing them - which is easier said than done. The headers make getting at the starter terminal a real pain. ended up pulling the whole front outer and inner fender off to get enough access to get in there. Outer didn't actually need to come off, but I was trying to gain better access to some of the inner fender liner bolts, but it didn't help. Got the battery cable off and it was pretty obvious why the starter wasn't getting any juice. the sheathing had melted on the header and was shorting out. Got the new battery cable in and tried a third time. Turn the key again and....it's turning over.

Next up, see if it'll try and fire. Spray a bunch of starting fluid in and try again. Turn the key and this time we get some hints of ignition. It tries, but without fuel and without someone to keep spraying it obviously won't start up. Went an got a funnel and my gas can. Filled up the bowls via the chimney and tried again. Turn the key and...IT STARTS!! It actually runs! Not well mind you and it's dumping fuel out at the fuel pump but it runs. Fuel in the tank is at least several years old. Need to get that drained and figure out the fuel pump leak. The seller said it needed a new fuel pump anyway, and probably worthwhile to replace the rubber fuel line anyway. I don't really want to spend a bunch of money on this engine. Based on the casting of the block "GM 50LG" it's not a 350 like the seller claimed. But I was expecting a 305 - if it had been a 350 that would have just been a bonus. But I'm not a purist and I don't have any intention of doing much with an old 305.

Some of the other things I've learned about it:
- some of the gauges don't work
- was likely in a front end collision at some point. Front clip and hood were replaced and the whole car was painted. Original color was Dark Blue Pearl Metallic and now it's pretty much black.
- The repaired area over the drivers rear fender doesn't seem bad. Maybe 1/16 or less of filler on top of solid metal there.
- Despite some staining on the rear quarter just below the vinyl top, the metal at the edge of the trim seems solid. Need to get the vinyl off and see what underneath. The vinyl is severely cracked and can't be saved.
- some rust down at the lower passenger corner of the firewall. but not too bad at all. Nothing that can't be saved.

Next step is to get it off the trailer. Get it into the garage and start tearing some stuff down and get a much better look. But so far, I'm quite pleased with it. It's going to get a thorough teardown and a different engine. The only thing I'm sure of right now and that I want to swap the front clip for the shovel nose style. I figure that I might be able to trade someone for my 87 front clip.

And since thread are worthless without pics, here are some from the listing and a few I took after getting it home.

Sellers photos
View attachment 161758
View attachment 161755
View attachment 161756
View attachment 161757
On the trailer after getting it home
View attachment 161749

Sweet custom headliner
View attachment 161750

Interior. Rallye gauges and console shifter. Interior is rough and desperately needs detailing, But virtually complete.
View attachment 161751
View attachment 161752View attachment 161753

That may actually be the actual mileage (~50,000km / 31,000 miles) The last reported mileage was 35,000 km back in 2005. I might get a better idea once I get the full Vehicle History from the DMV
View attachment 161754

I hope that the DMV history comes back good, and that the last legal owner is also the person that you paid to acquire the Cutlass from, and that they will be quick to sign off on all of the paperwork.

 

[PBGBodyFan]

Sounds like quite the project but based on the pics, looks like a solid and well optioned car. Worth a shot for that price, you have a good game plan for it too.

 

[Hurricane77]

Haven't had a whole lot of time to work on this yet. Been trying to get a few pre-winter tasks done before moving it into the garage for the winter and also had my overhead garage door jump the track and almost fall on the wife's car. Definitely had to get that sorted out first.

But I have managed to get a few things accomplished. Figured out the fuel leak. The nipple for the return line was pretty much completely ripped off. I don't really want to spend too much on the 305. Not that a new fuel pump is expensive, but nobody has stock. And I really just want to get it running enough to get it into the garage. So I used some fuel safe sealant and pushed some into the orifice, pinched it off, and let it cure. So doesn't seem to be leaking anymore. But definitely not a long term solution

I did get it off the trailer and into the driveway. The missing teeth on the flexplate is really annoying. The lower shield is completely missing, so I'm not totally sure what happened there. Someone's coming by to take a look at my garage door, so should get it into the garage tonight hopefully.

I really wanted to start getting a better idea of what I'm dealing with, so I started tearing off the old vinyl top. It was really badly cracked and not salvageable at all. Given how bad it was, I was kinda of expecting something similar to what RktPwrd had on his '80. Actually, wasn't that bad at all. Better than I expected:

Little bit of rust at the lower trim line on the passenger side

A wee bit near the trim on the roof

The driver's side is definitely worse, but there's no perforations. It's fairly solid though, I'm going to have to get it cleaned up to see how deep it goes. But this side definitely looks like a patch (or two) is needed. Almost looks like there was a previous repair done. Seems like a very thin layer of body filler. There's a bit of the same on the rear drivers' fender.

Still need to get that roof trim off and also rip out the headliner so I can completely see the extent of it. Next was to get inside and start pulling some of the interior.

The inner part behind the drivers door looked fine. But when I pulled out the lower rear seat there was some good news and bad news.

The good news: I found about $5.50 in spare change

The bad news, the body is not as solid as I thought. Someone screwed in some (what looks like) galvanized patch panels and then covered the whole seat area in a layer of fibreglass. the only part that isn't covered is the tunnel. And it looks like it goes all the way up to the front. I'll need to get the front seats pulled out in order to see just how far it goes. Worst part is, when they resined the fibreglass, they covered the seatbelt bolts and pretty much glued them in place. I think the only way to get the upper part of the rear seat out right now is to cut it out

Drivers side

Passenger side

This has me worried that either the frame rails have been rusted all to crap, though from what I can see from underneath, they appear fine. Or, given that I know the front clip was already replaced and given the body filler on the roof and rear quarter, this car has been in a bit more than a fender bender. Though that still doesn't completely explain the patch panels on the floor. There doesn't appear to be any on the passenger side as I don't see any screw heads hiding under the fibreglass. But I'll have to get that pulled up to be sure.

I'm not convinced yet that it was a rust issue as the drivers' rocker seem absolutely solid. Though that could have been repaired, but there's not obvious evidence of that (yet). But given the way the floor was patched, I'd be surprised if they did an A1 job on the rockers and left the floor to an apprentice.

Drivers' rocker:

So tonight I should be able to get it into the garage and really start tearing into it.

 

[L92 OLDS]

Welcome to the forum. Can’t say I have seen a pearl blue exterior combined with a medium gray interior. Usually the interior was blue as well. That car has a lot of potential and you paid a very fair price considering it’s a bucket seat / console car. What are your goals with it?

 

[442kid]

Nice story I’m in hamilton Ontario and have tons of parts including the older style header if need be.

 

[Hurricane77]

Welcome to the forum. Can’t say I have seen a pearl blue exterior combined with a medium gray interior. Usually the interior was blue as well. That car has a lot of potential and you paid a very fair price considering it’s a bucket seat / console car. What are your goals with it?

Thanks! The RPO codes do match the colors, however the center console seems to be flaking some paint and appears to be blue underneath. The value has diminished based on what I found last night, but again, for the price I'm still not disappointed. My goals are not fully formed in my mind yet. But definitely not a factory original restoration. Probably going to put an LS in, interior needs at minimum a really good cleaning, but I would like to get the seats recovered. And defineitely clean up the rust and some fresh paint.

Nice story I’m in hamilton Ontario and have tons of parts including the older style header if need be.

Nice, I may have to reach out to you at some point as I get further along. Header I'll definitely try and find locally. shipping would be ridiculous. Either that or make a road trip to Hamilton - some good breweries out that way 🙂

 

[Hurricane77]

I finally got it into the garage last night and was able to put a few good hours into it. Was able to get a better look at the underbody and started to get a bit more concerned...

I wanted to finish getting the rear seats and get the headliner out. The roof, seems fine. The bad rust spot on the drivers' side doesn't come through at all. There is some discoloration on the passenger side, but there's no corresponding rust on the outside and it perfectly smooth. I think it's mostly just some discoloration. I imagine if I take a paint stripping wheel to it it's be in good shape underneath.

Looks like someone was using the gap between the roof and the support to store food for the winter

Behind the rear seats was not in as good of shape, but given what I had found there previously and some of the rusting in the trunk area, it wasn't unexpected. Taking out one of the center seatbelt bolts was a bit of a surprise though...

I'm sure this was completely safe...

Given the fibreglassing under the rear seat, and some of the rust I saw underneath, I wanted to see how this goes. Out came the front seats and the carpet. The whole floor between the firewall all the way to the rise behind the rear seats has been fibreglassed. The only section there that hasn't been fibreglassed is the tunnel. While ignorance is bliss, I don't like nasty surprises. So with a a chisel, hammer pry bar and some pliers I set to finding out what was underneath.

With a bit of effort, a large section of the passenger side came up

But hiding under all that glass...

The reason it came up so easy was there's not a whole lot it was bonding to. I didn't take a picture but as I mentioned, the hood has been replaced. But looking at the color of some of the patch panels they used on the floor, it certainly looks like a Blue Pearl Metallic paint. I'm guessing they used sheet metal from the old hood to patch the floor 😂

Not sure I want to go the route of buying the entire floor replacement panel. First is that I haven't be able to find a Canadian source, and I expect I'll end up paying more for shipping than I do for the panel itself. Plus I don't really have a great way to get easy access to the bottom of the car (though I am considering building a simple rotisserie) I'm leaning towards using a bead roller and making some replacement panels and doing it in sections.

I guess I really should have taken a better look underneath. I was more focused on the rear frame rails, rockers and doors. I assumed if those were in decent shape, the floor wouldn't be that bad. Given the price, I'm not overly disappointed....or surprised. While I still think this is totally restorable, I am going to keep my eye out and see if there might be a better candidate and keep this as a parts car. In the mean time, I'm going to keep tearing it down and see what other surprises there are. If I can find a another decent candidate cheap, great. If not, I'm going working on this one. I like the idea of bringing something back that would otherwise end up in the junk yard. I'm also not keen on paying $3-5k for another one that may or may not have the same problems. there seems to be quite a few more available out west, but out east, almost everything is rusted out pretty bad.

 

[Hurricane77]

Not too much of an update today. It was cold last night, down to -8C (mid teens?) and was working with the garage door open. This thing is longer than my '93 Explorer 😂 and I don't have much clearance front and back, probably less than a foot either end. I only got about 2 hours in before my fingers were so cold I could barely pick a socket out of the tool case.

So rather than continuing to fight with pulling fibreglass off the floors, I decided to start taking the front end off which will give me more room to work with the door closed - and then I can justify turning on the heat.

Pulled off the front clip and bumper. No pictures, though. I'm sure you've all seen that a hundred times by now.

I had already had pulled the passenger side fender off in order to get at the starter wiring, so I pulled off the inner fender. The lower part of the inner fender needs some work, but I had already seen this when I pulled the outer fender. Also pulled the drivers' side, but that one I just disconnected the inner fender front the body and rad support and pulled the inner, outer and fender liner off all in one piece.

And finally decided to pull the rad. I noticed that there was no petcock to drain the rad, which I found strange. And the service manual certainly mentions there being one. Also when removing the upper rad hose (or maybe I should say trying to remove the upper rad hose, the neck just ripped right out of the rad. Given what seems to be a poor quality manufacturing job and no petcock, I'm assuming this is an aftermarket rad.

But, I got all that removed and now have a bit more room to maneuver up front

Also, as I was taking pictures for disassembly, I took a good one of the fire extinguisher residue on the upper engine. Sure looks like someone had some fun there. Whatever happened either wasn't too bad or was repaired. There's no evidence of melted hoses or wires. but in general it just looks nasty up there. The carb is crusty and I'm surprised it ran much at all

Today and tomorrow are going to be warmer, up into the 40s and 50s before getting down around freezing on the weekend. I need to clean up in the garage and get some of the larger bits into the basement and shed, but should hopefully get some more disassembly done as well.

I found a junk yard about 10 minutes away that actually has an '84 Grand Prix that I'm going to go check out on Saturday. I'm going to see if I can get some decent floor sections out of it and anything else that might be useful. Also found someone in the Ontario G-body Facebook group selling a set of Wilwood 4 piston calipers that I bought. Probably a bit premature, but the price was good. Should be here next week.

 

[Hurricane77]

So not a lot of photos over the last couple days. Finished stripping most of the fibreglass off what's left of the floor. Floors need a total replacement. Given the price of the replacement floor pan here, I'm strongly leaning towards bead rolling panels and replacing it that way. Seat mounts are in good shape though.

Other than that, didn't really touch the car this weekend. though that doesn't mean there wasn't progress.

Me and a couple buddies went to the local U pull yard Saturday and yanked a 5.3 from a 2006 Avalanche. Mileage unknown (cluster was out) , but it was fairly clean. It's a DBW so we grabbed the pedal as well. I was hoping to grab a complete engine trans combo, but all the 2WDs there were 4.8Ls. They had a couple 6.0L, but they seemed a bit crusty. Was was pretty hard to turn over. Figured I'd be better off with a 5.3L. I'll either go back at some point and grab a 4L60E or cross my fingers and see if I can get a 4L80E instead.

Before I bought mine, I had seen someone parting out 2 Cutlasses (Cutlass's? Cutlii? Cutlassi?) I had messaged him asking if he was willing to sell both figuring I would be able to piece together one good one from the two. He said he would think about it, but I never heard back from him. I had messaged him again since I want the shovel nose, some tail lights (mine are cracked, but serviceable) and the rear window trim. So he comes back and says, he'll sell them both for $400 and I can go see them on the weekend. So Sunday, I hooked up the trailer and went over there, only about 30 minutes from my place. The guys got a yard full of old cars. couple Malibu's an SS Nova, couple C10s and a few others that I didn't really get that good of a look at. Turns out the guy used to race and build stock cars locally. Nowadays he's still builds them, but his daughter drives. Apparently they were pretty good at it too. He likes to use the G-body frames for building, but decided that these two Olds were too far gone for his liking. He showed me around a little and showed me the Super Stock car they use for asphalt ovals and also another one that they built for dirt as well. Really cool guy. Unfortunately I didn't get any pictures yesterday as I was in a bit of a rush. But for $400 I got two parts vehicles.

There's a white hard top (not sure of the year, didn't check) that the body is pretty bad on. quite a bit of rust showing through. There's a engine in it, but I don't think it's the stock one. Could actually be a 350 based on the larger balancer and 3 blade fan. Need to get a ratchet on it and see if it even turns. No carb, but there was a hood on it, so it may not be full of water. Trunk is rusted all to crap and the rear frame rails are gone - literally there's nothing behind rear wheels frame wise. But the front header is workable, one taillight is good. Trim is decent. extra set of rallye gauges and there's a few odds and ends there. Extra bonus is that there's probably 200 empty beer bottles in it, so I'll get at least some of my money back 🙂

The second one is in quite a bit better shape. It's a two tone blue had top. No engine or trans but the body isn't bad except the rockers and doors. My rockers and doors are good, so I can probably cut out patched from this one to fix some of the rustier roof areas on mine rather than building patches from scratch. Some floor sections might be salvageable, but I'm not betting on it. The interior actually is in better shape than mine. But it's the cushy Brougham interior with the split bench. So if I want to use it, I may have to ditch the center console. We'll see - that decision is a long way off. There's also a bunch of random parts in there that may or may not be worth anything. Set of valve covers, a triangle mesh air cleaner top (didn't see the base for it though) and just a bunch of other stuff. We were getting our first significant snow fall Sunday afternoon into the evening, so I was rushing to get both home and then do a few other things around the yard before the snow hit.

Only crappy picture I have of the parts cars so far is this one. The white on the right and the two tone blue still on the trailer on the left. Can't really see too much but...