AIR system delete with the CCC?

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2drx4

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May 28, 2022
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The Cutlass Supreme I just bought already had all of the air injection stuff removed from it, however all the parts were in the trunk. I promptly tipped that stuff into the dumpster at work.

Now I am reading that the system not being there will cause troubles for the CCC, as its tuning is based on the assumption of seeing O2 sensor readings that are affected by the additional air being injected into the exhaust.

Is this really an issue? I can fish the stuff out of the dumpster, but I'm not sure if everything is there and undamaged.
 

ck80

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The Cutlass Supreme I just bought already had all of the air injection stuff removed from it, however all the parts were in the trunk. I promptly tipped that stuff into the dumpster at work.

Now I am reading that the system not being there will cause troubles for the CCC, as its tuning is based on the assumption of seeing O2 sensor readings that are affected by the additional air being injected into the exhaust.

Is this really an issue? I can fish the stuff out of the dumpster, but I'm not sure if everything is there and undamaged.
Well, a couple things.

1) the CCC adjusts based on what it actually measures. If it was deleted properly you should still run OK, just your emissions results may suffer.

2) I always hate throwing parts away without at least trying to sell, then if needing gone, giving away free. One man's trash is another's treasure, and, these are 40 year old cars. Lots of stuff isn't made anymore.

3) in the CCC world, the A.I.R. pump isn't being made new. To some guys, corvette, nut and bolt resto, that pump has utility and possibly value. But overall see number 2. You may not care about emissions, but, other guys other places might...
 
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2drx4

Greasemonkey
May 28, 2022
116
168
43
The middle of BC, Canada
Well, a couple things.

1) the CCC adjusts based on what it actually measures. If it was deleted properly you should still run OK, just your emissions results may suffer.

2) I always hate throwing parts away without at least trying to sell, then if needing gone, giving away free. One man's trash is another's treasure, and, these are 40 year old cars. Lots of stuff isn't made anymore.

3) in the CCC world, the A.I.R. pump isn't being made new. To some guys, corvette, nut and bolt resto, that pump has utility and possibly value. But overall see number 2. You may not care about emissions, but, other guys other places might...
I'm not in the US. Somebody would have to be beyond desperate to pay to have that shipped to them. I saw they were listed on Rockauto and assumed they were available, but it turns out the listing is to reman your pump.

If I delete the CCC I'll offer the parts up. I don't plan to though, not unless I wind up keeping the car long term, in which case it will be reengined.
 

Ugly1

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Oct 26, 2021
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I'm not in the US. Somebody would have to be beyond desperate to pay to have that shipped to them. I saw they were listed on Rockauto and assumed they were available, but it turns out the listing is to reman your pump.

If I delete the CCC I'll offer the parts up. I don't plan to though, not unless I wind up keeping the car long term, in which case it will be reengined.
How far away from the US are you and depending on location you may still find people that would want it. Especially brackets and such as like you, they may not want to spend the money for parts if you have to pay out a lot for shipping and taxes if they are right there.
 

Clone TIE Pilot

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Deleting thecAIR system will not affect the CCC system. During closed loop the AIR is injected downstream of the O2 sensor into the cat converter.

These days its unwise to thow out parts like the AIR system as new parts are no longer being made. Don't know about your country but here in the US its illegal to disable, tamper with, or remove any of the low emssion parts under Federal law for all 50 states with no age cutoff. However, some states don't bother to enforce these laws on older cars for the time being.
 
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Ugly1

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Oct 26, 2021
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Deleting thecAIR system will not affect the CCC system. During closed loop the AIR is injected downstream of the O2 sensor into the cat converter.

These days its unwise to thow out parts like the AIR system as new parts are no longer being made. Don't know about your country but here in the US its illegal to disable, tamper with, or remove any of the low emssion parts under Federal law for all 50 states with no age cutoff. However, some states don't bother to enforce these laws on older cars for the time being.
Massachusetts,NY,of course California( oh God for bid!) are coming down hard on it. If NH does I’m going to a car year they can pick on and put the body on the frame I have.
 

86LK

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as someone else pointed out, those parts are worth gold in some places, especially California. the air pump, the air lines that plumb into the exhaust manifold, etc
 
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Ugly1

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as someone else pointed out, those parts are worth gold in some places, especially California. the air pump, the air lines that plumb into the exhaust manifold, etc
If in UK they have to pass even more of the stuff than the State’s do. They can’t even leak oil on the MOT inspection.
 

ck80

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I'm not in the US. Somebody would have to be beyond desperate to pay to have that shipped to them. I saw they were listed on Rockauto and assumed they were available, but it turns out the listing is to reman your pump.

If I delete the CCC I'll offer the parts up. I don't plan to though, not unless I wind up keeping the car long term, in which case it will be reengined.
U.S. or not, same deal. People already want/need some of the pieces. And for a numbers match guy, the A.I.R. pump already fetches a pretty penny because they aren't gbody specific.

The last new one I saw sell many years ago went over $400 to a corvette guy. When you consider the number of engine swaps those were deleted on, and the buyers in states where the emissions garbage matters... well, it's like I said.

You contemplated pulling stuff out of the dumpster. Asked for input. Nothing there takes up more than a shoebox worth of space altogether. I'd save it. Either offer it to those in need or leave it with the car.

If you rather junk it, well, your car, your parts. But I'll stand by my initial reaction in the first reply.
 
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69hurstolds

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As long as you don't have an emissions test. Because that O2 converter is going to only do 1/2 its job. Air is injected to the 2nd half of the dual bed converter for the oxidizing part of the catalytic converter operation. The system injects air to the exhaust manifolds during engine warmup and when the engine is in open loop. It will also divert to the air cleaner when rich conditions, high vacuum during deceleration, high rpms, and when you throw an ECM code. Obviously, you don't want fresh oxygen in front of the O2 sensor, that's why it is where it is.

There's also your switching valve that during normal operation in closed loop, sends air to the cat. It also can swap to send that air to the exhaust manifolds during cold engine startup and any time you're not in open loop for whatever reason. If the valve leaks by during closed loop to start bleeding air into the exhaust manifolds when it shouldn't, the O2 sensor will react to the extra oxygen, see that as a lean signal, and richen up the fuel mixture when it doesn't really need to. This can result in higher operating temperatures for the cat, which isn't good.

The AIR system is designed to balance itself as it operates and everything in the system must be in tip top condition to work properly. The air pumps themselves are sealed and no lubrication or maintenance required. So when they give up the ghost, you have to replace it. Same with the plastic switching and diverter valves. There are check valves that often burn out and allow exhaust gases to get back into the AIR system. This isn't good either. If your AIR hose connected to the top of the check valve is hot to the touch where it hurts, or you see melted rubber, then change the check valve. Sometimes you'll hear them ticking and sound and can zero in on it. They don't last forever.

Generally speaking, I've seen too many people that don't understand the CCC system, thus they can't fix it when it messes up. 99% of the time, it's a bad sensor, shorted or broken wire. But they rip it out anyway, then wonder why their car doesn't run worth a crap.
 
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