I'm not a fan of the LS engine family. However, I am glad that the majority is willing to sell off their big blocks for next to nothing to support their LS/LQ swaps. I am a big block hoarder.
Am I the only one who is tired of LS swaps?
- Thread starter MrSony
- Start date
- Status
I like unique stuff, don't get me wrong. Drawthrough 3.8 and RWD supercharged 3800. I went LS on my 2+2 for a few reasons.
1) I wanted something with EFI to daily it. Ive drove my carbed car in the winter and it is just finicky. None of the factory 60-70's cars have factory EFI and I am not spending more on an MSD EFI setup then the longblock was worth. Getting megasquirt to run on a non factory EFI engine gets tricky with coils, injectors, ect.
2) I can't find non-rebuild 400/455 Pontiacs around anymore. There is one within 500 miles of me (with no accessories) for $1200. I bought my 6.0 for $200.
3) Going to drop $1500 on a set of heads to make a 60/70s engine worth a damn (unless is a vortec SBC which is the same boring setup as LS
Yeah they can be boring but they are a leap ahead of a non EFI "legacy" block. I am not a fan of going SBC over SBO or BBP ect since now there are options to make BOP motors run like a SBC (roller cams, alum heads, ect) Used to be chev only short of a game for aftermarket parts.
That being said going to an LS with a carb is a step back. If you want a carb build an aluminum headed SBC.
1) I wanted something with EFI to daily it. Ive drove my carbed car in the winter and it is just finicky. None of the factory 60-70's cars have factory EFI and I am not spending more on an MSD EFI setup then the longblock was worth. Getting megasquirt to run on a non factory EFI engine gets tricky with coils, injectors, ect.
2) I can't find non-rebuild 400/455 Pontiacs around anymore. There is one within 500 miles of me (with no accessories) for $1200. I bought my 6.0 for $200.
3) Going to drop $1500 on a set of heads to make a 60/70s engine worth a damn (unless is a vortec SBC which is the same boring setup as LS
Yeah they can be boring but they are a leap ahead of a non EFI "legacy" block. I am not a fan of going SBC over SBO or BBP ect since now there are options to make BOP motors run like a SBC (roller cams, alum heads, ect) Used to be chev only short of a game for aftermarket parts.
That being said going to an LS with a carb is a step back. If you want a carb build an aluminum headed SBC.
Everyone has their opinions. The guys that want to go fast that are on here its seems go Chevy, whether its LS, sbc, or bbc. That is unless its a turbo Buick.
If you don't like them I'm not going to sway anyone but the guys that downplay them and say go sbc instead, they really aren't that comparable. You would have to spend serious money on aftermarket heads for an sbc to get ones that flow better than my factory rectangular ports, which flow more air than factory bbc heads. The aluminum blocks are as strong as the iron sbc, and iron Ls is way stronger. It goes way beyond the fuel injection.
Its only going to get worse for the guys that are sick of it, because there are going to be more and more available in the salvage yards and in crate form,and less V8s of other brands floating around. It has been since 1990 that the last of the Olds ohv v8s were produced.
The guys that are talking about these "crazy" swaps aren't doing them, and then I'm reading about easier and cheaper and re-using stock accessories. Leaving the stock engine in is cheap and easy too.
Oh well, I'm done. I'll continue to guide newer guys looking for help with swaps as I continue my own. Then I will be running 10s in my boring, run of the mill, 600hp, carbed Ls Cutlass.
If you don't like them I'm not going to sway anyone but the guys that downplay them and say go sbc instead, they really aren't that comparable. You would have to spend serious money on aftermarket heads for an sbc to get ones that flow better than my factory rectangular ports, which flow more air than factory bbc heads. The aluminum blocks are as strong as the iron sbc, and iron Ls is way stronger. It goes way beyond the fuel injection.
Its only going to get worse for the guys that are sick of it, because there are going to be more and more available in the salvage yards and in crate form,and less V8s of other brands floating around. It has been since 1990 that the last of the Olds ohv v8s were produced.
The guys that are talking about these "crazy" swaps aren't doing them, and then I'm reading about easier and cheaper and re-using stock accessories. Leaving the stock engine in is cheap and easy too.
Oh well, I'm done. I'll continue to guide newer guys looking for help with swaps as I continue my own. Then I will be running 10s in my boring, run of the mill, 600hp, carbed Ls Cutlass.
Couldn't agree more lol some times i look for cheap cars that I could swap my spare LS into. Mostly datsuns.
On a side note my 350 is an L-82 I picked up at a swap meet for $100.00. Threw in a $100.00 rering kit from Northern Auto and a set of 2.02 iron heads. The only thing not stock is the cam, intake, and carb. Puts out 450HP and gets me down the track in the low 11's. Attached is an article on our friends LS.
Curt Connors’ 9 second carbureted LS1 Monte Carlo
March 5th, 2013
Curt Connors and his family are well known around the Mid Michigan Motorplex. They are die- hard bracket racers that make the weekend a family event. Curt’s wife Melissa and his parents all spend the weekends at the track most of the summer.
Curt’s 84 Monte Carlo is back halved, with a Mild Steel Cage. The Dana 60 houses 4.56 gears spinning 14×32 Goodyears. The car is all steel except for the hood and decklid, with stock glass throughout, but Curt has managed to get the weight down around 2700lbs. Just right for the Transmission Specialties Powerglide and 8” race converter to do their jobs.
The engine combo is a straightforward setup. It is 403 CID, based on a 6.0L LS1 truck engine. The stroker kit consists of 4” stroke Callies Compstar crank and 6.125 rods, and Autotec flat top pistons. Final compression ratio is a hair over 13 to 1. The heads are CNC Ported RHS units from Competition Components, with 230CC Intake runners, 2.080/1.600 stainless valves, and optional solid roller springs. The cam is a custom solid roller, with 260ish duration, and .750 lift. Lunati roller lifters and Trend heavy wall 5/16 pushrods make sure all of the cam’s lift gets to the T&D 1.7 ratio rockers. The engine is topped off with a hand ported Edelbrock Super Victor intake and a Holley 950 gas carb. The stock LS coil packs are run by an MSD timing controller. Headers are modified Schoenfeld Circle track headers, that were coated at QC Coatings in Utica, MI.
Curt’s first time out with the new combo was at the final test and tune day in 2012. Baseline passes were in the 9.80’s @ almost 138MPH. There wasn’t any time for any real tuning, just a few shakedown runs. For those first few hits, Launch was 5200RPM, and shift points were 6700. For next season, Curt has a new converter from Lenny at Ultimate Converters in the works, as well as some other refinements in the works. We are as excited as Curt to really put this combo to the test during the 2013 season. Stay tuned for more results!
On Board Video: http://youtu.be/pgWMkRRLcKg
I still hardly see any LS swaps out in the real world despite being done to death on the net. I have not seen any LS swapped G bodies at car shows or meets, only saw one 50s, Bel-Air with a LS swap, also the only guy with signs plastered all around his car to blab on about his swap, can't blame him for being proud of it.
Most of the LS swaps I see on the net are illegally done and would never pass inspections, carb LS are illegal, deleting any part of the emission system is illegal, reprogramming the PCM is illegal and they can test for it, and lastly most old car gas tanks are incompatible with enhanced EVAP systems and thus illegal, you have to install the donor enhanced gas tank that won't fit. About the only legal LS swaps are the EROD kits GM sells.
Back when I did my SBC swap, it was before LS swapping became popular. Bought a complete running HO 305, TH2004R, CCC system, emissions gear, belt accessories, and trans crossmember for $250 total. I went with SBC because it was cheap, good aftermarket support, reliable, and legal. Getting a SBB, would have been neat but it would never pass inspections as they are older than the car itself. All the different engines have their pros and cons and there isn't a single perfect one. SBC still has the best oiling system, yes the LS uses a more advanced oil pump design, but it spins at twice the speed from being crank driven and is more prone to cavitation, plus the oil galleries are routed not as well as a SBC. All deep skirt blocks inherently have much poorer oil return despite being stronger. It is why the LS7, uses a dry sump, it is a band aid. Also about the nickel content of SBC blocks, they came in 3 grades, low grades that had lower nickel than BOP engines, mid grade SBCs that had the same nickel content as BOPs, and serve duty SBCs that had higher nickel content than BOPs.
Most of the LS swaps I see on the net are illegally done and would never pass inspections, carb LS are illegal, deleting any part of the emission system is illegal, reprogramming the PCM is illegal and they can test for it, and lastly most old car gas tanks are incompatible with enhanced EVAP systems and thus illegal, you have to install the donor enhanced gas tank that won't fit. About the only legal LS swaps are the EROD kits GM sells.
Back when I did my SBC swap, it was before LS swapping became popular. Bought a complete running HO 305, TH2004R, CCC system, emissions gear, belt accessories, and trans crossmember for $250 total. I went with SBC because it was cheap, good aftermarket support, reliable, and legal. Getting a SBB, would have been neat but it would never pass inspections as they are older than the car itself. All the different engines have their pros and cons and there isn't a single perfect one. SBC still has the best oiling system, yes the LS uses a more advanced oil pump design, but it spins at twice the speed from being crank driven and is more prone to cavitation, plus the oil galleries are routed not as well as a SBC. All deep skirt blocks inherently have much poorer oil return despite being stronger. It is why the LS7, uses a dry sump, it is a band aid. Also about the nickel content of SBC blocks, they came in 3 grades, low grades that had lower nickel than BOP engines, mid grade SBCs that had the same nickel content as BOPs, and serve duty SBCs that had higher nickel content than BOPs.
Last edited:
i hear what everyone is saying, most of my stuff is based on old school stuff, but i was on a budget and the parts were cheap. i also have a aluminum 5.3 ls eng waiting for a donor car. my sons car is getting a 4.3l v8 lt1 style eng, again cheap. over the years I've hoarded and swapped enough stuff to make it work.
but at the end of the day this is what it boils down to, for me. i would rather have a ls engine swap person in this hobby, than not. without the constant rejuvenation of this hobby, i fear, it will wither and die.
but at the end of the day this is what it boils down to, for me. i would rather have a ls engine swap person in this hobby, than not. without the constant rejuvenation of this hobby, i fear, it will wither and die.
Any one ever think about a 3800 engine. Good little engine that can make a lot of power. 200 horse power stock. 300-500 horse power turbo. Plentiful and cheep engines.
To be fair, SBBs had one of the best flowing factory cast iron V8 heads of the time. Sure, a good port job is always an improvement, but those things could outflow any non race application head any day of the week back in the 70s.
- Status
