Darn right brother....Ain't that why we're here ?
Are G-Bodies the "New" Classics?
- Thread starter CaliWagon83
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My dad and I used to have a bunch of 60's and 70's Muscle cars. All different makes: Mopars, AMC, Fords, GM's. We bought what was cool and a good deal. Real muscle cars were never supposed to be expensive. They were targeted at young people 18-35 year olds and were meant to be purchased on 18-35 years old's pay, so we bought them for cheap... $2500 - $7500 (for 1 of 100 to 1 of 650 cars). For the 1 of 50 stuff (SS AMX, Motion Camaro) we paid in the $20's to low $30's.
As our cool, good deals started going up in value, people were offering 3, 4 even 5 times what we had in them (including the purchase and restoration costs).
If I had not bought an '86 T-type for $5,000 in 1995, we'd probably wouldn't have "cashed in" and liquidated our "classic" muscle cars. The problem was the T-type was faster than ALL of the street muscle cars we owned, and drove and handled better. It made me want cars I could drive and enjoy and not just sit in a chair and stare at. Life is too short for that.
G-bodies are a perfect blank canvas to make a semi-modern "muscle car" that will kick the crap out of most classic muscle cars for 1/2 the money. In places with tight emission regs, classic muscle cars will always be king, but spending $50K - $100K to make an old car perform like a modern car is painful, and G-bodies have a big head start on most of the classics in the driving dept.
As our cool, good deals started going up in value, people were offering 3, 4 even 5 times what we had in them (including the purchase and restoration costs).
If I had not bought an '86 T-type for $5,000 in 1995, we'd probably wouldn't have "cashed in" and liquidated our "classic" muscle cars. The problem was the T-type was faster than ALL of the street muscle cars we owned, and drove and handled better. It made me want cars I could drive and enjoy and not just sit in a chair and stare at. Life is too short for that.
G-bodies are a perfect blank canvas to make a semi-modern "muscle car" that will kick the crap out of most classic muscle cars for 1/2 the money. In places with tight emission regs, classic muscle cars will always be king, but spending $50K - $100K to make an old car perform like a modern car is painful, and G-bodies have a big head start on most of the classics in the driving dept.
This has been discussed before at length, and I believe the general consensus was the problem with G Bodies is that they aren't from the hot rod era. The late 70s and 80s cars were known for being slow and inefficient with awkward emissions systems.
That said, G Bodies do have the basic formula right, they are one of the last midsize, two door, full frame, solid axle, rear wheel drive cars from Detroit, and you can swap damn near any engine into them.
People just need to accept them for what they are, which is a great and affordable platform to build on, and stop trying to make them into the muscle era cars they aren't.
That said, G Bodies do have the basic formula right, they are one of the last midsize, two door, full frame, solid axle, rear wheel drive cars from Detroit, and you can swap damn near any engine into them.
People just need to accept them for what they are, which is a great and affordable platform to build on, and stop trying to make them into the muscle era cars they aren't.
'57 Chevy's and T-birds and even 90% of cars produced during the muscle car car era, including over 80% of Mustangs made during that time weren't faster than the V-8 G-bodies and handled like pigs on roller skates in comparison, but they are "classics" because people could mod them to make them fast and could show them off at big shows for "pre 1972" cars. Not being able to Legally Mod G-bodies in California and Not being allowed @ goodguys on Saturday are the two big stumbling blocks for the G-bodies to becoming blowout, I got to have that "classics".
If you drive an '65 Mustang or '70 Cuda, then drive an '86 T-type, you won't go back to a "classic" muscle car unless you 1) legally have to or 2) want to still hang out with all your old friends at the "big show".
Technically yes. By year, we all know that. But real world? No. Your completely unknowledgeable to average car knowledge person will say yes, but they are just equating classic with old. For intents and purposes the classic car world does not consider or treat G-bodies as true classics. When I got to shows or deal with car guys, I feel I'm tolerated but I'm not allowed in "The Club". I do feel however that Grand Nationals, GNX's and Turbo Regals are allowed in through sheer power and street value they've forced their way in.
You know what though? I could give a s***. I know for years the G-body was the poor mans, wannabe car guy, tinkerer's car. Swapping the v-6's for lame V-8's, flipping the air cleaner lids, installing bad cragar wheels, clamping cherry bombs on and putting stickers all over, while the car rusted away. But I feel that over time and with changing economics, G-bodies are in better hands today than they were 15-25 years ago.
My favorite parts of owning my G-body Monte Carlo are how it surprises people. It's a non-SS so the look is something people rarely see anymore. For the average folk I think my car invokes an unexpected nostalgia. Many last remember seeing a Monte like mine in this condition in a family members driveway in like 1990. And when car guys see it(and see the 4.3 badge on the back) they immediately think of the wanna-bees who used to drive these back in the day. Then they hear it run and you can tell they love the sound and are a bit reluctant to admit it. Because it sounds better than their car. Then they see it go and it goes like hell. This ain't no 4.3 car with 2.41's or a 305 with 2.73's.
https://ibb.co/h6WCNm
You know what though? I could give a s***. I know for years the G-body was the poor mans, wannabe car guy, tinkerer's car. Swapping the v-6's for lame V-8's, flipping the air cleaner lids, installing bad cragar wheels, clamping cherry bombs on and putting stickers all over, while the car rusted away. But I feel that over time and with changing economics, G-bodies are in better hands today than they were 15-25 years ago.
My favorite parts of owning my G-body Monte Carlo are how it surprises people. It's a non-SS so the look is something people rarely see anymore. For the average folk I think my car invokes an unexpected nostalgia. Many last remember seeing a Monte like mine in this condition in a family members driveway in like 1990. And when car guys see it(and see the 4.3 badge on the back) they immediately think of the wanna-bees who used to drive these back in the day. Then they hear it run and you can tell they love the sound and are a bit reluctant to admit it. Because it sounds better than their car. Then they see it go and it goes like hell. This ain't no 4.3 car with 2.41's or a 305 with 2.73's.
https://ibb.co/h6WCNm
Oh this post is getting fun, l'll stay to watch this one and see where it goes! Lmao.
A car has a purpose and G-bodies fill there spot very nice, the mid sixties to first of 80s muscle car fit that straight back roads quarter mile perfectly. Who needs handling for a straight line.
We all get a vehicle and change it to how we drive. Change handling or hp.
Each one of my cars has a purpose no matter what year whether it be my Olds, Elcamino, Monte SS or Camaro and depending on how l feel is which one l drive that day.
A car has a purpose and G-bodies fill there spot very nice, the mid sixties to first of 80s muscle car fit that straight back roads quarter mile perfectly. Who needs handling for a straight line.
We all get a vehicle and change it to how we drive. Change handling or hp.
Each one of my cars has a purpose no matter what year whether it be my Olds, Elcamino, Monte SS or Camaro and depending on how l feel is which one l drive that day.
Its not illegal to modify G bodies in Cali, but you have to use parts that have been CARB approved as being emission legal. Problem is, most of the G body aftermarket, especially bolt on, direct fit, and emission legal parts have been discontinued. The aftermarket is dumping support of old gen motors in favor of the LS bandwagon, and the only legal LS swap in Cali are expensive old car emission legal Erods. So no new legal parts avaiable because manufactures decided the G body market is not big enough outside the large market overlap for LS swaps.
Not helping matters is GM discontinuing replacement parts right and left, making G bodies less attractive for projects. Many aftermarket parts are sub par and do not work as well as discontinued OEM parts like with weatherstripping. Plus in some parts of the country, G bodies have a bad, ghetto / gang banger vibe.
G bodies being semi modern is a big turn off for some as that means they are outdated. Especially in this day and age when things become outdated faster and faster. Mark Savitske has stated that G body suspension design is badly flawed and poor by even 1950s stndards yet alone modern standards. Its difficult to improve one aspect of G body handling without making another worse.
Not helping matters is GM discontinuing replacement parts right and left, making G bodies less attractive for projects. Many aftermarket parts are sub par and do not work as well as discontinued OEM parts like with weatherstripping. Plus in some parts of the country, G bodies have a bad, ghetto / gang banger vibe.
G bodies being semi modern is a big turn off for some as that means they are outdated. Especially in this day and age when things become outdated faster and faster. Mark Savitske has stated that G body suspension design is badly flawed and poor by even 1950s stndards yet alone modern standards. Its difficult to improve one aspect of G body handling without making another worse.
Yep, they completely suck. That's why I've owned 3 . . . and special ordered my 442 in late '86 when I heard the 88s were going to front wheel drive 4 bangers and just kept it garaged and fair weather driven for posterity. Because, they just suck! And, though I've had it scattered long enough now that I've almost forgotten what it was like to drive, I have never driven it anywhere when someone didn't ask if I'd sell it? Not today! Perhaps when I'm dust in the mountain meadow . . .
True, without help, they had NO power from the factory, they are like riding a sofa through an S-curve, the factory brakes are sh*t, and there is no way you will ever make one into a 911 or a Z06 no matter what you do . . . but there are ways to make them "surprisingly" respectable in all of these aspects for a full size American made coupe, sedan, or even wagon . . .
Hope Ben doesn't mind . . . I'm working on a real similar splitter for my 442!
True, without help, they had NO power from the factory, they are like riding a sofa through an S-curve, the factory brakes are sh*t, and there is no way you will ever make one into a 911 or a Z06 no matter what you do . . . but there are ways to make them "surprisingly" respectable in all of these aspects for a full size American made coupe, sedan, or even wagon . . .
Hope Ben doesn't mind . . . I'm working on a real similar splitter for my 442!
NO !!!!!!!!!!!!
They are the CHEAP alternative for people that can not afford the classics.
The prices have become absolutely obnoxious on these cars.
There is NOTHING classic about them at all!!!!!
The classics are classics because they were an industry break through.
Nothing at all was notable about any GBody off the showroom floor
Except the T-Type/GN's and maybe an Aerocoupes back window.even though it was copied from a 77 Impala
.
Ugly, cheap, under powered that is the GBody's claim to fame!!!!!!
All that being said I am still looking for a 78-81 LeMans those cars are awesome!!
They are the CHEAP alternative for people that can not afford the classics.
The prices have become absolutely obnoxious on these cars.
There is NOTHING classic about them at all!!!!!
The classics are classics because they were an industry break through.
Nothing at all was notable about any GBody off the showroom floor
Except the T-Type/GN's and maybe an Aerocoupes back window.even though it was copied from a 77 Impala
.
Ugly, cheap, under powered that is the GBody's claim to fame!!!!!!
All that being said I am still looking for a 78-81 LeMans those cars are awesome!!
By the phase "legally modify" I meant to modify a car run faster than Mid 14's in the 1/4 mile. I thought that would be obvious. Modified like they can do in 96% of the other states.
As for the G-body suspension being "outdated", compare to what? a Leaf sprung musclecar? Really?
Have you EVER driven a leaf sprung musclecar?
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