Are G-Bodies the "New" Classics?

[joesregalproject]

'57 Chevy's and T-birds and even 90% of cars produced during the muscle car car era, including over 80% of Mustangs made during that time weren't faster than the V-8 G-bodies and handled like pigs on roller skates in comparison, but they are "classics" because people could mod them to make them fast and could show them off at big shows for "pre 1972" cars. Not being able to Legally Mod G-bodies in California and Not being allowed @ goodguys on Saturday are the two big stumbling blocks for the G-bodies to becoming blowout, I got to have that "classics".

If you drive an '65 Mustang or '70 Cuda, then drive an '86 T-type, you won't go back to a "classic" muscle car unless you 1) legally have to or 2) want to still hang out with all your old friends at the "big show".

It has absolutely nothing to do with being fast or handling well, the problem lies in the fact that they are from the wrong decade. Again, G Bodies just aren't "muscle era" cars. Other than the fact that most of the factory G Body engines were junk from a power standpoint, G Bodies check all the boxes that the 60s and 70s classics do.

And if you can accept them for what they are, you can build a badass G Body. A lot of guys already have. There are plenty of G Bodies that are faster than GTOs, Chevelles, Buick GSs, old 442s etc.

 

[HAFROD]

My opinion on the a/g body cars is this. These cars WILL always be worth some money. They do not depreciate. I was messing with them in the late 90s to mid 2000s pretty heavy. I bought a few for $100-$400. Now rollers are selling for a lot more than that. As with the muscle cars, the rarer = more money. Don't wait to buy one unless you want to spend more money. The rarity of G bodys in salvages is a clue as to whats coming. It's the kids that get to the age they want to buy a car like their dad had. It does not have to have 400 horse power to be collectible. What do you think 2+2s, Monte Carlo SS', Grand Nationals, Hurst Olds will sell for in another 10-20 years? My guess is, it will be pretty stupid money. Not that base Regals, Cutlass', etc won't be worth nothing, just the more special will always bring more money. When I was in high school (90-92), my dream cars were a Grand National, Monte Carlo SS, or an IROC Z. If anyone watched the SEMA coverage on Velocity, they interviewed Craig Jackson of Barrett Jackson. They asked him what to look for for future collectability and he said 80s stuff. It's coming, mark my words

 

[Andebe]

"It's a box", said my ex-wife.

Keyword, "ex."

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

By the phase "legally modify" I meant to modify a car run faster than Mid 14's in the 1/4 mile. I thought that would be obvious. Modified like they can do in 96% of the other states.

As for the G-body suspension being "outdated", compare to what? a Leaf sprung musclecar? Really?

Have you EVER driven a leaf sprung musclecar?

You could legally modify them to run high 13s back when more parts were available to G bodies with 305s. Funny how the 3rd Gen F body guys can get 300 hp + out of carbed 305s when most G body guys just whine about having a 305. Plus its is still illegal under state and Federal laws in the other 96% of the country to tamper with emissions.

Not my words about G body suspensions, but Mark's, a well known and respected professional suspension expert who runs SC&C. I suggest you contact him and tell him how wrong he is. Main issue is that the front suspension geometry sucks, almost backwards from a good handling setup. Its slightly worse than 64 to 72 A bodies. It was designed to be cheap, interchange with other platforms, and be nice and soft for gramps as G bodies were designed to be grandpa mobiles first and foremost. The performance models are all afterthoughts and suffer issues from this.

However, they are still fun cars despite of these issues. But they are reflections of their time which is a serious turnoff for some.

 

[Jeff Blagden]

Dana Mecum from Mecum's auctions predicts that in 10 years the value on G body cars will sky rocket have a good day Jeff

 

[CaliWagon83]

Yeah. It just straight-up sucks living in CA if you're trying to modify a post-'75 car, legally. As much as I hate to say it, the E-Rod is probably the best performance option. Even at that, I've heard LS' are physically larger than the traditional SBC, and don't drop into the engine bay quite as easily. As much as I want to go turbo V-6 with my build, I may end up going the E-Rod route if I run into too many walls.

 

[Kwik_Cutty88]

There was another thread that had a kinda similar topic, so I'll interject what I said there and add a little more to it. The topic of the original thread was somewhere along the lines of "when/where/why did G Body's suddenly become popular/worth anything?"

To which I replied:

"Well seeing the prices for even a ratty 1st gen F body, or A body, the G body and 3rd gen F body seem like the next logical steps for many people. Their popularity are (and have been) showing in the increased aftermarket support alone.

In 20 years people will be saying the same thing about G body's, and then the next popular platform will come around."

My perception on the G Body changed since I've owned it and really started to learn about them. I used to think that they were a hot ticket item, that they would be the next legendary A body or the like. Now I think a little differently.


I've always said G Body's are like legos. They are still pretty cheap, you can take parts from everywhere, pretty much do anything you want with them, a lot of times without major fab work. Which is great. G Body's are a great platform to learn with, they can be made to drive decently, and are an ok platform for drag racing. Autocross and road course racing stuff is a little trickier with these cars, but still plenty doable. You can thank the aftermarket for that.

I think there are a lot of people who still want that '70 Chevelle, or '69 Camaro etc. But because of the prices that is a pipe dream for many. For me, the G Body was just the perfect first car to learn on and start drag racing with. Before I stumbled across the G Body for the first time (shortly before I got it) I didn't even know what it was. I was looking at 3rd Gen F Body’s for the same reasons. They were cheap, easy to modify, and still plentiful. I didn’t think to myself “oh I’m gonna get one of those 442’s, they had 170hp!” Once I got my G Body and starting learning about them, I didn’t sit and cherish it from a rarity standpoint (of course I did for centimental value). No, we swapped another engine and trans in, and i started building what I had in mind.

Looking back on it now a G Body was just realistic for me. I can never see myself owning a '70 Chevelle, but I can see myself owning a Trans Am GTA or other 80’s “performance car.” These cars just seem realistic and doable for a lot of people. And in a lot of cases, parts are still plentiful, so you don't have to worry about driving/beating on them.

Honestly G Body's are the perfect compromise, not rare enough to really worry about (in most cases, obviously the exception with the rarer models), but you can still have that "classic car" aspect, where people look at the car and go "wow!" just because they don't look like any modern car.

No offense meant here, but I think a lot of people fail to realize what these cars really were. The Monte Carlo SS, 442, Hurst/Olds etc. were just "left overs" from the successors that came before them. They had big shoes to fill with those name plates, and in my opinion didn't come anywhere close to filling them. But that was just a sign of the times, and you had to pretty much settle with these cars. With the exception of a few models, the performance era was over at this point. The base models were average cars for the time, in my opinion they still weren't anything "special" or revolutionary, they were just following good selling market trends.

The collector market is pretty strange honestly. I have no doubt that G Body’s will continue to go up in value. But I think it will only be because you simply can’t find them anymore, or because of the nameplate carried on from older models.

To make a long story short, I think a lot of people over hype these cars just because of the name plates, or the fact that owning the previous successors just isn't realistic for a lot of people. This may seem like I actually hate the g body, but I don't. They are decent cars, but in no way shape or form are they the holy grail like they are sometimes made out to be.

 

[307 Regal]

[walks back into the room]
And another thing:
Who's gonna be buying these things in the future? Really. How many people are going to want them?
For perspective, I was born in '90; I'm 27 years old. I spent my younger years riding around in my dad's '87 Cutlass, his Malibu wagon before that, and my Grandma's Monte Carlo LS. But by the time I was old enough for a car, I had forgotten about them. (Most of) the kids in my generation never grew up yearning for a G-body. We didn't even know what they were, because we all wanted something else. And I'm not just talking about '69 Chargers, '70 Chevelles, and '69 Camaros. I'm talking about imports. Subarus, Toyotas, Nissans, Mitsubishis. Sporty cars with manual transmissions, better power-to-weight ratios, aerodynamics, turbos, etc. Those will probably go up in price sooner and higher than Gs. They're the "cheap muscle cars" of my generation without actually being muscle cars. I hate to think of what a Nissan S13 will cost one day, once they've all been LS swapped and drifted to death.

EDIT: But even so, even if someone still wants "a cheap muscle car," the rebirth of pony cars is going to leave cheap 400hp Camaros, Mustangs, and Challengers sitting around one day.

 

[UNGN]

You could legally modify them to run high 13s back when more parts were available to G bodies with 305s. Funny how the 3rd Gen F body guys can get 300 hp + out of carbed 305s when most G body guys just whine about having a 305. Plus its is still illegal under state and Federal laws in the other 96% of the country to tamper with emissions.

Not my words about G body suspensions, but Mark's, a well known and respected professional suspension expert who runs SC&C. I suggest you contact him and tell him how wrong he is. Main issue is that the front suspension geometry sucks, almost backwards from a good handling setup. Its slightly worse than 64 to 72 A bodies. It was designed to be cheap, interchange with other platforms, and be nice and soft for gramps as G bodies were designed to be grandpa mobiles first and foremost. The performance models are all afterthoughts and suffer issues from this.

However, they are still fun cars despite of these issues. But they are reflections of their time which is a serious turnoff for some.

It's also illegal to speed, but everybody does it... unless you are that one guy. Spending $5,000 on "CARB approved" modifications to only run high 13's on a good day is not anyone's idea of idea of a good idea.

All of Mark's "problems" with the G-body suspension can be easily fixed and he sells the parts to do it. He has never said "it sucks, don't bother". Just adding $200 worth of Tall ball joints fixes the camber curve Mark complains about. He sells these ball joints, too. There is no fixing leaf springs for real world driving.

A stock T-type on 215/65 Eagle GT's could out accelerate, out handle and out brake a stock '69/70 BOSS 302 or AAR/TA. Look up the old road tests, they are online somewhere. MCSS's used the same tires/brakes, so I'm sure they too could "out handle" these muscle cars that were "legendary" for their "handling"... and that is in 1980's stock form. Higher skidpad numbers, faster slalom numbers, shorter braking numbers on tires we all remember as "crappy".

 

[UNGN]

Oh, and I've already cashed in on the "G-bodies are Classics" meme.

I bought an all option, low mile, all original '86 GN for $12K. Did nothing to it other than take it to car shows and sold it for $21K, about 10 years later to a guy who though it would become a "classic".

That was originally why I bought it and was happy with my profit, but 10 years from now, good luck finding a low mile, all option, all original '86 GN for less than $50K.