Thanks for that. If it turns I'll feel a lot better. I'll get the plugs out Friday and see what I can see.
Blown Head Gasket
- Thread starter Rgpmalibu
- Start date
CERTAINLY : rust or no rust common to have rust on valve seats on head gasket cases that have set like 5 year or more or less...maybe certain cylinders, maybe several cylinders ; now as to how hard the rust is or as to how much it effects sealing and to what would happen if it happens to be a startable engone ?of course the top of the cylinders is the worst place to have rust ( outside of stuck valves) the rust on the valves/ seats is possibly going to effect you leakdown (test) were it's present ....here again scattered rust speckled through the center area of a given cylinder may if smoothed by rings or hand removed by kerosene and a 400 gritt peice of sand paper negligible ": it all depends on where ( position ) and to what degree and exactly what could be done to elevate or improve the physical condition of the engine cylinders valve seats, rings / pistons ...what you don't want us a cylinder ( any) sitting a 1/2" down from the top of the stroke with water after being overheated and end up with deep rust pits in the high compression area of the cylinder . PRACTICALITY will cause some mechanics to think if a engine turns over well enough then it's might be useful to attempt starting the motor with out disassembly. ( befor?)This might allow the rust to be scraped away and the rust on and valves could be flatten and blow out by the running engine effects...Other mechanics would put some oil and gas mixtures like Marvell oil poured down the carburetor trough while cranking the engine over..I personally have used a mixture of old oil and gumout to soften up the rust or oxide on the top of the cylinders / valve heads .there are a lot of possibility from baked oil deposits crumbling and wedging onto valves if they exist on high mileage motors... to adding to much oil and locking a motor due to hydrolics ( a motor will not compress oil or water in a sufficient amount... if a given motor has water or say 2/3 rd a cup of oil youl have to remove the plug/s and then crank the motor untill it's exits through sparkplug holes and exhaust valves.. it's not going to hurt much if you decide to pour a lubricant like chainsaw mix into the engine say with extra 2 cycle mix added into say 2/3 a cup of gasoline and with the primary coil wire removed and let your motor sit overnight befor starting it the extra gas will simply defuse past the pistons..next time you crank and possibly you can get it running hearing it run will help you do the coolent( water?) displacement test for your block gaskets i mentioned I'n my last post...obviously if you decide to pull the heads or whole engine? sometimes: a matter of when and why... hope that you motors alright and have some fun fixing it ...
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i hope 1st thing you did when got it in your hands was get that milk out. i cant speak for the previous owner and what they did or did not do. i'll just say i blew a head gasket around the cov lockdowns. just had my oil changed a few months previous so oil was still clear but car was over heatig & coolant goin missing.....? wasn't showin up on dipstick. i drove it so little thar yr when fall came it kept happening and i sent it to my mechanic. cly #4 was destroyed beyond repair or what they would be willing to fix. i would after removing that milk, if don't have, get or rent a cam to go in thru the spark plug holes & evaluate the cylnders begore pulling heads and maybe put in cheapest of oil to get the coolant out of key places.
i will also say while cyl 4 was spent, i also had a tune up late nov 19' with that oil change, it started over heating march 20' , i had a tune up at same time and car ran better than i ever had it since 1st buying in 03;. it ran crisp & nice, no knocks or anything even when brought to shop nov 20' with only 69k orig mles..
i also have to say when i was a teen those nova yrs i looked at em as JUNK! lol i love them now as i'm nearing 50, it is so rare to see 1 of those beauties. i could find a bigfoot before finding 1 of those, bad head gasjet or not consider yourself lucky to have 1.
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We're super excited about this car. I even like the 4 door. Whoever owned it previous put a lot of time and shiny stuff under the hood.
well if you have to replace that engine, not experienced with but hear good things bout blueprint engines. i think you can customize your own? btw that thinga 2 or 4 dr? tough to tell in that pic but it has that look of pissed off...
i think reason as a teen those things looked like trash cuz they were common, had ugliest of wheel caps, a 2' tail pipe that 90 degreed out behind a rear wheel & nobody dressed 1 up. i had 1 that was a 4 dr, pops bought it for me for like $500 in 91'. the A arms were rotted to near nothing, they were replaced and it was up to me to get a job so could support it, well i wound up injured 1st. when got capable enough again got a monte ss in 95'.
when i delivered papers there was 1 of those novas on my route i'd always see in its disgusting brown in all its stock dress glory, possibly a 6 cyl but a 2 dr hatch back.... they just disappeared from the roads and you didnt notice. if there was 1 car i noticed gone and glad is is the 82-95' camaros. lol they were on the streets as if a bed bug infestation.
When I saw how clean it was, I was sold. I feel guilty about the price I paid for it. It was so clean I couldn't pass it up, but then I started digging into it. Huge aluminum radiator, electric fans, headers, dual stainless exhaust, edelbrock AVS2 carb, traction bars, 17" wheels, late model bucket seats, gauges, shiny alternator and water pump, tinted windows. When I did my Malibu, I was basically starting from scratch. I'm already 90% of the way there on this car. Somebody put some cash into it. I just have to get the thing moving. I don't know about the rear end or the trans, haven't got that far yet, but I would be really surprised if the rear wasn't some sort of limited slip.
Seized how? Mechanically? Something broken? Or maybe rust/gunk?
Let me tell you about a stuck Pontiac 400 we had. A 1980 TA, 1978 Pontiac 400 sitting for years. I went to change the oil and get it running. Stuck! Tried to get the oil out and instead gallons of water came out. The valley pan had rusted holes that let the hood scoop drain water fill the engine. So we filled it to the top with waste oil and let it sit. We put solvent in the combustion chambers. Every now and then we tried to turn the crank with a socket on a breaker bar. After a couple of weeks, it moved! Rocked it back and forth until it would rotate completely. Drained all that old oil and filled it with some cheap oil. Put clean plugs in, gave it gas, and it fired up! It smoked a lot, but I knew after a lot of time that would stop. The water had caused a lot of rust damage to rings and valves but the engine had not run so no damage to bearings. Spidereyes455 provided us with a good valley pan, and the engine ran very well. As time progressed, the smoking stopped. You would never know that engine was stuck. I would still try working on your engine and see what is going on. If mechanical damage then of course it must come apart. But exhaust everything else first. This is that 400 today:
Let me tell you about a stuck Pontiac 400 we had. A 1980 TA, 1978 Pontiac 400 sitting for years. I went to change the oil and get it running. Stuck! Tried to get the oil out and instead gallons of water came out. The valley pan had rusted holes that let the hood scoop drain water fill the engine. So we filled it to the top with waste oil and let it sit. We put solvent in the combustion chambers. Every now and then we tried to turn the crank with a socket on a breaker bar. After a couple of weeks, it moved! Rocked it back and forth until it would rotate completely. Drained all that old oil and filled it with some cheap oil. Put clean plugs in, gave it gas, and it fired up! It smoked a lot, but I knew after a lot of time that would stop. The water had caused a lot of rust damage to rings and valves but the engine had not run so no damage to bearings. Spidereyes455 provided us with a good valley pan, and the engine ran very well. As time progressed, the smoking stopped. You would never know that engine was stuck. I would still try working on your engine and see what is going on. If mechanical damage then of course it must come apart. But exhaust everything else first. This is that 400 today:
This gives me hope!! Drained the oil, at least a gallon of coolant came out, then milkshake oil. Haven't cut the filter yet, but I didn't see any sparkles in the oil. I know that the engine has sat for a long time because I had to peel the belts off the pulleys. With all the plugs out, I tried to turn the crank bolt but it didn't budge. So now I have nothing but time. I'll put in some old oil and add some solvent to the cylinders. It couldn't hurt! I don't have the cash for something new anyway, so I've got nothing to lose and everything to gain. That's a BA 400 you have there!
So the engine has never ran since you got it? Maybe the PO shut it down as soon as he saw the trouble- or ran it until it quit. This a a gamble but worth it I think. Oil drained? Good. Add old waste oil, remove distributor, use a priming tool to turn the oil pump with a 1/2" drill. [old cut down distributor makes the best tool but a big-azz screwdriver shaft chucked in a drill works too] See what kind of oil pressure you have. That will also flush the bad stuff out of the oil galleries, lifters, and bearings. Drain that and refill with more old oil. As for the combustion chambers when I was doing that 400 everyone here had suggestions for the best solvent. I decided on ATF/#2 oil cut with acetone. The acetone gets the mix into all the crevices, leaves the ATF/#2 behind, and that is the best solvent going. #2 heating oil [diesel] works really great by itself too. I soak entire heads in the #2 oil for a couple of weeks and they come out spotless.
By the way, that was the second stuck 400 I saved. I had a 1977 Trans Am that was totaled and I got it for parts. I realized the front end took all the damage and decided to fix it all. While I had the engine out, on a dolly, wrapped all up in plastic, a hurricane hit and blew water up under the plastic and filled the engine right up to the top of the intake manifold. I did not know this until I went to put the engine back in the sub-frame and heard sloshing. It had sat for months like that. STUCK!!! I did the same procedure- filled with waste oil, WD-40 in plug holes, and every day after work I tried to turn the crank with a breaker bar. It took weeks, but it came un-stuck. That 400 ran great for many many years.
Here is the old thread about the 400. Wow, look at all the missing persons.
https://gbodyforum.com/threads/doing-the-unstuck.69747/
By the way, that was the second stuck 400 I saved. I had a 1977 Trans Am that was totaled and I got it for parts. I realized the front end took all the damage and decided to fix it all. While I had the engine out, on a dolly, wrapped all up in plastic, a hurricane hit and blew water up under the plastic and filled the engine right up to the top of the intake manifold. I did not know this until I went to put the engine back in the sub-frame and heard sloshing. It had sat for months like that. STUCK!!! I did the same procedure- filled with waste oil, WD-40 in plug holes, and every day after work I tried to turn the crank with a breaker bar. It took weeks, but it came un-stuck. That 400 ran great for many many years.
Here is the old thread about the 400. Wow, look at all the missing persons.
https://gbodyforum.com/threads/doing-the-unstuck.69747/Similar threads
