MONTE CARLO Factory 1986 AC; where do I start?

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86blacksupersport

Not-quite-so-new-guy
May 24, 2018
27
52
13
Washington state
I need some help fixing a factory 1986 AC system. I don't know much about AC systems but, I’m sure with some help I can get this thing working. The issue I’m having is that I don’t know where to start. I know I need a belt and maybe upgrade the components of the system to work with modern refrigerant.

Here's what I know about the system;
86 Monte Carlo SS 305ci
The only part missing appears to be the belt. Which I'm sure someone disconnected because the system needed charging or they thought it was robbing 5 horsepower away from the engine; funny.
The engine and drivetrain are in good working order. No check engine lights.

What I don't know and questions;
Does the compressor work, does the clutch work and does the system leak.
Why is the belt really missing.
Does the system use the same refrigerant as modern cars; I doubt it.
Do I need a professional to flush out the system?
Do I need to upgrade the entire system?

Thanks you, John

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fleming442

Captain Tenneal
Dec 26, 2013
13,046
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AC is pretty simple right up to not knowing what the hell you're doing. General theory: gas is in system, compressor compresses, gas goes through orifice tube/filter, expands, gets cold. At ĺeast that's what I think I know.
Let's go to school!
 
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airboatgreg

Comic Book Super Hero
Oct 2, 2016
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The belt is off for a reason. See if you can turn the compressor manually. The pulley and the front clutch assembly. If both turn ok, put a belt on and see what happens. Put a gauge set on and see if system is charged. Do that and report back
 
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69hurstolds

Geezer
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Jan 2, 2006
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Appears everything under the hood is factory original and not messed with much. Which is impressive. The compressor is a 198, check. On top of the Evaporator housing, you can see what's left of the replicated ECM decal (what the techs could scan instead of having to pull out the ECM under the dash), check. The air cleaner code decal, check, even the A.I.R. system appears in tact. The compressor hose from the dryer can is likely original since there's a black nut on the hose end.

My experience with G-bodies tells me that you either 1) have a locked up compressor (this would be really bad) or 2) like you surmised, someone thought they could save 2 HP by taking off the belt on a system that has been depleted but never recharged or leak found, etc. (which isn't great but nothing you can't fix).

I agree with airboatgreg in that you need to see if your compressor turns freely. If it does, then check the entire system over to check for obvious leaks before just buying a belt and throwing it on there. If you see lots of leak areas, they'll likely have mineral oil around the leak. This is what keeps the compressor lubed. Without it in the system, and you put a belt on there and bypass the low pressure cut out switch to kick it in, you may torch the compressor and REALLY have a bad day.

If it's locked, then you know you'll either need to get your compressor totally rebuilt, or find a replacement. Thus, if it's locked, then that means you 99.98% likely to have metal shavings floating through the system. You can likely flush out the hoses, but not the dryer. The orifice in the small line going to the evaporator core is likely clogged with crap. Either way you'll need a new one of those. You'll likely need at minimum all the O-rings for the system. Your condenser coils in front of the radiator may be cheesed as well if it's locked. Professionals may be able to flush it, but I bet it's original which means the S type tubes vs. the cross flow they make now which would work better if you were converting to 134A. The supply pipe from the condenser to the evap/orifice tube can be flushed. The evaporator itself can be flushed as well. Then you need to evacuate the entire system in a deep vacuum, and you must ensure you get out every single bit of mineral oil because it does not mix well with PAG oil in a 134 system. Unless you use ester oil. I have heard, but haven't tried, ester oil in a conversion, but it's supposed to be compatible with mineral oil and R12 and 134A systesm. I was told that the aftermarket compressors you get at the auto parts stores come with ester oil for this reason. And the hoses may hold up, but likely the rubber hoses for R12 will bleed through using 134A. So to do it right you should replace the hoses with 134A suitable hoses.

Also for conversions, get the heaviest duty compressor you can. The little compressors that came on G-bodies came in two styles that I'm aware of. The light duty and regular duty (like your factory one). 134A runs at higher pressures and MAY be rougher on the light duty ones. Just something to think about.

If you haven't had much experience with it AND you don't know what you're starting with AND you're converting to 134A, I would highly suggest talking it over with professionals or someone who's had a boatload of experience doing this prior to doing anything.

And remember, even thought there's a lot of us who has jacked around with A/C systems on these cars, we're not there. It'd be after the fact if something goes wrong and if we forget to tell you that one little detail that makes or breaks the system, then oops. Validate everything anyone tells you on here. There are books written about this stuff, so it's hard to diagnose and get it fixed with just a few paragraphs of info.

Not trying to dissuade you from doing this, just trying to pass on some advice about how not to destroy a car A/C system in 30 seconds or less. (Ask me how I know).
 
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Bonnewagon

Lost in the Labyrinth
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Sep 18, 2009
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Listen to airboatgreg. Put a belt on and if the compressor clutch engages when you ask it too and the compressor turns you are 90% there. Unfortunately your old system uses R-12 which is outlawed and hard/expensive to get. There are R-12 replacements available that work pretty well and save the headaches of converting to the new R-134a. Otherwise you must convert to R134a. The only way to tell if the system holds pressure is to test with a gauge set. Taking it in to a shop for a quick charge is the fastest way, but it may leak right out. Instead for the $100 you will pay you can get a very nice set of gauges for yourself. If the system has some pressure it may be too low for the low pressure cut-off switch to enable the clutch and it will not engage. If the compressor works and there is any pressure at all then you can "top it off" by adding enough R-12 or equivalent until the compressor stays on and then you watch the gauge to see if the low and high pressures are within specs. You add enough to get it in specs and you are done. If the system is empty then you must find out why. Adding freon and then finding the leak is exasperating but necessary. First an empty system needs to be vacuumed down by a pump or venturi type tool. The reason for this is that any air inside has moisture and it will freeze. When a vacuum of 29" mercury is established, water vaporizes and is carried out of the system. That gets the moisture out and then you can charge the system. A pump is fast but expensive but I have used the Harbor Freight venturi type with slow but decent results. It works with an air compressor so you need that too. Once the vacuum has been at 29" for a half hour or so you shut off the pump and see if the system holds vacuum for 15 minutes or so. If not- go leak finding. If so- add a charge of freon by weghing it out on a digital scale. There is a spec for every system either on an underhood sticker or in a manual. If it takes 2 pounds then 2 one pound cans will do it without weighing. Complicated? No. But you must invest in the tools or else you are at the mercy of shops that will take your money and may or may not get it working right. EDIT: 69 hurstolds is point on- listen to him too.
 
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Bonnewagon

Lost in the Labyrinth
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Sep 18, 2009
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Queens, NY
Another EDIT: You have R-12 service ports so only R-12 gauges will fit. You may find a real deal on Ebay or Craigslist for the old style gauges. R-12 equivalent can be used with the old gauges. Otherwise everything must be converted to R134a including the service ports with adapters and then R134a gauges will work. Even though I have R-12 gauges I use R134a gauges to administer my R-12 equivalent freon with no problems. Read this: http://acprocold.com/blog/car-tipstricks/abc-automotive-ac-recharge/
 
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Ribbedroof

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Jan 4, 2009
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R12 is not outlawed, the production of new R12 is prohibited, but reclaimed R12 is available and legal to use, unlike many R12 substitutes (many of which contain either hydrocarbons or R134a or a blend of various refrigerants that are not approved for motor vehicle use in the USA). However, everyone that has any R12 seems to think they are sitting on a gold mine, which is silly because no vehicle has been manufactured to use it since 1994. That's 24 years!

I would strongly consider converting to R134a if it turns out you need a new or reman compressor

Considering the parts are 32 years old, many would be best served by being replaced. Hoses and condenser would be 2 items I would replace, the hoses simply because of age, and the condenser because better designs exist (parallel flow). Flush evap core, new orifice tube, new O-rings, a competent service tech for the evac and recharge, and you should be good to go

FWIW, I have converted a couple of G bodies to R134a, and have been quite happy with the end result...first one would blow 38 degree air on the highway, and that was with the old tube and fin condenser design.

Latebreaking edit...forgot to mention R134a is cheap, and has been used for 25 years, so it should be around for quite a while. Some newer vehicles are using another refrigerant (R1234yf), but in the USA, it's mostly FCA vehicles and some random imports. It runs around $100/pound, and automaker dealerships are the only facilities that are equipped to service it in my area....part of this is because it's use is not widespread, and the EPA still has not decided what their "final answer" for mobile airconditioning refrigerant is going to be.
 
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86blacksupersport

Not-quite-so-new-guy
May 24, 2018
27
52
13
Washington state
Yeah, you guys are amazing. Thanks to all of you who took the effort to explain in-depth what might be happening.

I haven't had a chance to read all of your responses due to family obligations. Tonight my son and I will look through all these and diagnosed the system as you guys specified.

I'll keep you posted...
 
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