BUILD THREAD #FamilyBurnoutWagon (1983 Malibu Wagon)

[@BurnoutsandRotorblades]

Alright, I’m about to embark on a pretty wild journey with my engine. I’m going to swap over to E85. I want say why the corn juice is the path I’ve chosen. However, I do want input if you have any.

If you have read this far, you know the #FamilyBurnoutWagon has a supercharged small block, every detail of which I have put below. It put down 401 whp on 4lbs boost and pump gas (91) when it was 110 degrees outside. But I want more. . . obviously.

The concern is, at 4lbs boost, my calculated static compression ratio is 11.4. With timing set at 14/34 max and the MSD BTM cutting 2 deg/lb, I should have a max of 26 deg advance. The air fuel ratios I keep pretty conservative because of how hot it is in Las Vegas. This is super safe setup I run down the highway with the AC on taking the kids to soccer. Occasionally it will smoke from the back tires a whip wildly in circles when I feel moved treat the loud-pedal like an on-off switch, which almost never happens. . .

Theories. . .

With 100 octane petrol in the range of $8.00/gal and only allowing a 12:1 compression ratio, it won’t be a big enough boost in power to be worth the extra dyno numbers. I want to wheelie!! The corn juice boasts a generic 105 octane number which should support about 10lbs of boost, according to vigorous googling. In an on all cylinders article I’ll link below, they ran a 10.1:1 compression ratio engine with 9 psi boost safely on the dyno. This is a calculated 16.1:1 compression ratio with no reported problems. So, shooting for 15.1:1 should be safe. Also, running the corn juice on the rich side for safety doesn’t cause the loss of power as petrol base boom juice. Not to mention the benefit of cooler cylinder temps and being able to add some timing to the extra boost for some extra power. I’m interested to see what this swap will do to the power output of the #FamilyBurnoutWagon.

Most of the mods below are in the videos on my YouTube channel if you are interested.

The current engine is out of a 1996 Chevrolet Pickup. It is a Small block 350/5.7 L31 engine. The specifications are all below.
Stock: rated 9.4:1 (calculated 9.1:1) using: https://www.summitracing.com/popup/calcsandtools/compression-calculator
Bore 4.00
Stroke: 3.48
Head chamber size: 64cc
Valve size intake: 1.94
Valve size Exhaust: 1.50
Piston dish: 12cc
Piston to deck clearance: 0.025
Fel-Pro Head Gasket Part number 1034
Summit Racing Part Number: FEL-1034
Gasket Material: Steel core laminate
Compressed Thickness: 0.041 in.

Cylinder heads are Aluminum Blueprint H8002k:
Combustion Chamber: 64
Intake Runner: 195cc
Exhaust Runner: 75cc
Intake Valve: 2.020 in.
Exhaust Valve: 1.600 in.
Valve Springs: COMP Cams 986-16
Maximum Valve Lift: 0.575 in.
Guideplates: Yes
Valve Guide Material: Manganese bronze
Valve Seat Machine Style: 3-angle
Valve Seat Material: Chrome nickel
Rocker Arms: Summit 1.5 Aluminum Roller SUM-G6935-16
Pushrods: Edelbrock 5/16 in. dia, 7.2 in length, 0.080 in thickness, Heat-treated Chromoly, p/n 9653
Valve Cover: SUM-440601-L Tall Fabricated Aluminum Valve Covers

Camshaft: COMP Cams Nitrous HP Camshafts Hydraulic roller 08-301-8
Grind Number: CS NR276HR-113
Basic Operating RPM Range: 2,000-6,000
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 224 int./236 exh.
Advertised Duration: 276 int./288 exh.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.502 int./0.520 exh.
Lobe Separation: 113

Supercharger: Weiand 144 blower
https://documents.holley.com/199r10243rev.pdf
Stock compression: 9.1:1 + 4psi = 11.4 compression (401 whp)

Timing: Summit HEI and MSD 6462 6-BTM Ignition Control Box
Fuel: Customized Holley 4150 style 750 CFM Vacuum Secondary with Boost Referenced Power Valve

Proposed ability on E85
Stock compression: 9.1:1 + 10psi + 15.1

Article:
https://www.onallcylinders.com/2015...eans that you could,to 16:1 compression ratio.

 

[@BurnoutsandRotorblades]

The first thing I need to do to have the engine accept E85 with all this boost is rebuild the carb. My plan is to get one of the craigslist carburetors I have stacked up in the garage and customize it to fit the purpose. They have purpose built E85 Carbs, but honestly, who wants to burn $700 on a perfectly functioning, purpose built carb when you could almost as much money and twice as much stress messing it up yourself? I'll order everything linked and follow instructions below, plus jetting and nozzle increases of 40% just to start.

Here is the kit I plan to use. along with instructions directly from Holley.

Quick Fuel 34-106QFT Billet Metering Block Kit E85

Billet Metering Block Kit E85 - Fully Adjustable Our billet aluminum metering blocks are machined to very strict tolerances then anodized for protection and good looks. CNC cut from premium aluminum and filled with precision parts, these blocks provide the ultimate platform for your...

www.holley.com

Quick Fuel 18-10-10QFT .130 Stainless Steel Needle & Seat Kit

.130 Stainless Steel Needle & Seat Kits-10 pieces

www.holley.com

Tech Tip: E85 Conversion on a 4150 QFT Carburetor!

There is no denying that it is easier than ever to make big power, whether that be through a rowdy mouse motor on nitrous or a junkyard LS engine with a hairdryer; it seems that anyone can make near 4-digit numbers with their home-built hotrod... CLICK HERE TO LEARN MORE!

www.holley.com

Then on to the engine. I plan to pull the engine and reset the ring gap.

 

[@BurnoutsandRotorblades]

To set the ring gap, I will follow the recommendations from a ring manufacturer. Here is what Weisco says,

"For a street engine, multiplying your bore size by 0.004in will give you the top ring gap you are looking for.

• 004 x 4.00in bore = 0.016 inch ring gap

For high performance engines, the multiplier changes to add more clearance, but the math stays the same:

• Modified or Nitrous Oxide - 0.005in x 4.00in bore = 0.020 inch ring gap
• High Performance Racing - .0055in x 4.00in bore = 0.022 inch ring gap
• Racing with Nitrous/Turbo - 0.006in x 4.00in bore = 0.024 inch ring gap
• Racing Blower/Supercharger - 0.007 x 4.00in bore = 0.028 inch ring gap

For the second ring, the process is the same, but with a slightly different gap, based on application:

• Street - 0.005in x bore size
• Modified or Nitrous Oxide - 0.0055in x bore size
• High Performance Racing - 0.0053in x bore size
• Racing with Nitrous/Turbo - 0.0057in x bore size
• Racing Blower/Supercharger - 0.0063in x bore size

We like to see the second ring end gap .001-.002 larger than the top ring so it does not lock in any compression that gets past the top ring,”

http://blog.wiseco.com/everything-y...mance engines, the,High Performance Racing - .

 

[64nailhead]

You will need 30-35% more fuel. Need to be jetted accordingly. What are you using for a wide band, or are you plug reader? Personally, I wouldn’t try this without a wide band or EFI, but I’m not a carb guy.

You’re worrying too much about the calculated compression, those are numbers that are for reference only. I will say that I’d be on an MLS head gasket with ARP bolts or studs.Your concern needs to be cylinder pressure, not static or dynamic compression - they are not the same but rather one is a factor in the other. The most important factor to cylinder pressure is timing. You need the keep the timing in the tank until you hit peak torque, which I’d guess will be lower than 5k rpms. Then add the timing. And I have no idea how to do that with an MSD box or distributor, hence my favoring EFI.

If you have max timing in before peak torque, then you’ll be testing your head gaskets, rods, pistons and rod bearings every time you put the wood to it.

 

[@BurnoutsandRotorblades]

You will need 30-35% more fuel. Need to be jetted accordingly. What are you using for a wide band, or are you plug reader? Personally, I wouldn’t try this without a wide band or EFI, but I’m not a carb guy.

You’re worrying too much about the calculated compression, those are numbers that are for reference only. I will say that I’d be on an MLS head gasket with ARP bolts or studs.Your concern needs to be cylinder pressure, not static or dynamic compression - they are not the same but rather one is a factor in the other. The most important factor to cylinder pressure is timing. You need the keep the timing in the tank until you hit peak torque, which I’d guess will be lower than 5k rpms. Then add the timing. And I have no idea how to do that with an MSD box or distributor, hence my favoring EFI.

If you have max timing in before peak torque, then you’ll be testing your head gaskets, rods, pistons and rod bearings every time you put the wood to it.

Thank you for your advice. I've read anywhere from 30-40% more fuel on E85. The Holley website for how to do the carb E85 conversion I linked above says 30-40% extra fuel. I have read 30-35% in other places though. I'd rather shoot for the 40% and jet down to ideal than the other way around. Especially since I'm on a boost application. I have read other places that E85 doesn't lose power if it's too rich like gasoline. I do have a Wideband and that is key to tuning. I think I might switch over to Lamda with E85 rather than the raw stoichiometric number I have been using for gas.

For the static compression ratio, I need a way to quantify the engines limitations. Since the Blower instruction manual says "too much boost relative to the static compression ratio" can cause detonation in addition to poor fuel quality, and every fuel octane has an approximate compression ratio it's safe for, it was the easiest measuring stick to use. I understand that Static compression isn't the end-all be-all, but cylinder pressure calculations are more math than I have the brain for.

The engine already has ARP head studs. Sorry, I forgot to mention that. I'll go back and add that in. I am looking at ARP main studs and a main stud Girdle. That is some good advice though, and probably one of the only reasons the engine is still together. i will look in to an MLS head gasket. I don't know much about them.

Timing ramps are done with springs in an HEI. It's a bit of trial and error that I can do on low, or no, boost since it's centrifugal. Judging by the dyno run in this video my peak torque was around 4200. I did set the timing per the blower instructions. The Weiand blower instruction manual for the blower I'm running says, "We have found that a good starting point for the ignition timing is to run 6 to 10° of initial advance (static timing advance) with about 22 to 24° of mechanical advance in the distributor, for a total of 28 to 34° of advance, which should be all in by 2500 RPM." The MSD BTM pulls timing out with boost though, bringing me back down to 26 degrees at max boost. I don't know really what I'm doing by experience so I try to do things by the book.

 

[64nailhead]

I'm not an expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. So you should take my advice with a grain of salt 😉

Here's my extensive knowledge E85, C16, and meth injection : use all of them as a safety cushion for a street car. All 3 will allow for a tuning mistake that would be lethal on pump gas. Mistake as in too much timing, too lean, etc. I went to 24 psi of boost at 12.3 or 12.5 AFR on E85 with a turbo by mistake - didn't cause a problem. If I had been on pump gas, that would've been catastrophic. You're spot on mentioning that too much E85 doesn't hurt much, other than your rings and crosshatch.

I'd let your box pull timing in the same manner and let her eat. You'll be fine on E85, but probably leaving 5-10 degrees of timing, and power, on the table. Basically, follow the premise of 'let the boost do the work'.

MLS standard for multi layer steel. MLS head gaskets seal much better than most everything other than copper head gaskets, but copper is a pita. And MLS ones are re-useable to a point.

 

[@BurnoutsandRotorblades]

I'm not an expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night. So you should take my advice with a grain of salt 😉

Here's my extensive knowledge E85, C16, and meth injection : use all of them as a safety cushion for a street car. All 3 will allow for a tuning mistake that would be lethal on pump gas. Mistake as in too much timing, too lean, etc. I went to 24 psi of boost at 12.3 or 12.5 AFR on E85 with a turbo by mistake - didn't cause a problem. If I had been on pump gas, that would've been catastrophic. You're spot on mentioning that too much E85 doesn't hurt much, other than your rings and crosshatch.

I'd let your box pull timing in the same manner and let her eat. You'll be fine on E85, but probably leaving 5-10 degrees of timing, and power, on the table. Basically, follow the premise of 'let the boost do the work'.

MLS standard for multi layer steel. MLS head gaskets seal much better than most everything other than copper head gaskets, but copper is a pita. And MLS ones are re-useable to a point.

I make notes about my tuneup and keep them in the glove box. I would like to have a track tune that gets dialed in on a dyno. I'd like to detune from that optimized tune, and run around with about 5 degrees less total timing in it. That would be easily done by turning the MSD BTM up 1 more notch. I get your meaning about having the carb tune too rich and washing out the rings. I was just talking about initial setup being rich. A carb tune is never a set-it-and-forget-it deal. Changes in elevation and season are cause for swapping jets. I don't know how to plug read, but I should probably learn.

When I first put the blower on, I pulled over 4 times on the way to the dyno to change my carb tuneup. When I was driving from Vegas to Salt Lake I had to change jets at every fuel stop. So, it's something that will get dialed in pretty quick after I get the car back on the road. I was saying I wanted to start off rich and work down to ideal rather than the other way around.

The MLS head gaskets are a good idea. Any recommendations on brand or do's and don'ts to offer?

 

[Tony1968]

Cometic are a pretty good mls gasket company
With all the carb stuff.... have you ever considered using a Holley sniper efi carb system? Pretty sure they have one that'll support 1200hp and would be a whole lot easier than the constant jet changes and the like. Just an idea.

 

[@BurnoutsandRotorblades]

Cometic are a pretty good mls gasket company
With all the carb stuff.... have you ever considered using a Holley sniper efi carb system? Pretty sure they have one that'll support 1200hp and would be a whole lot easier than the constant jet changes and the like. Just an idea.

On this car, I never intended to put anything nice like that on it. This car's job is to turn tires into smoke and let me make inexpensive mistakes. It is also where I hone my skills and test things out for later projects. I am going to start a new build on the YouTube channel. It's a 1957 Chevrolet pickup I'm building for my dad's retirement gift. It'll have a 454, that I'm hoping to put in the 4-digit-horsepower range. That is supposed to be nice, and will get a set of twin Holley sniper throttle bodies pushing E85 on top of a 6-71 blower. That will probably come out the beginning of next year.

 

[@BurnoutsandRotorblades]

So I made the leap and started the E85 swap. I ordered an E85 carb swap kit . . . wait, everything about the carb build is in the video. More to come on the car. Let me know what you think.