General Motors was ruined long ago.

[Clone TIE Pilot]

But if these cars were so dreadful, but still made inroads int the Big Threes market, what does that say about domestics?.

Roger.

After what happened with his Toyota, he went to Ford and never had rust issues like that again. Even my 87 Regal only had a little rust, mainly the one frame body mount, but nowhere near the order of rust on the 84 Toyota despite 25 more years. Sadly I think the public (here in the US) often holds imports and domestics to different standards. They are more forgiving to imports for infractions than they are to domestics. Both had had the ups and downs and poros and cons with each other is the reality.

Some of it also depends where you live too, I notice city people tend to prefer imports while country folk prefer domestics. I live out in a semi-rural area and there are few imports parked in the houses along my road. However when I go into Philly or other built up areas I see more little Kias and Hondas and other base model imports. Also importing has always had mystique, exoticness, and even higher costs that adds more prestige to some peoples' eyes over domestically made products. The old joke of imported being right up there as smuggled comes to mind.

The big 3 did piss of some consumers and left a bad taste that will last for decades for sure. However when peope jump ship to another one, then tend to ignore that the second option also has major problems. People don't like to admit to themselves that they may have jumped out of the pan and into the fire.

 

[rustyroger]

Surely imports no longer have any exotic aura?. Prestige is what Mercedes Benz, BMW, and Lexus are all about, with unapologetic high prices to suit, But Nissan, Toyota, Hyundai, Kia or VW having any mystique?, I have a hard time believing that.

Roger.

 

[pencero]

You would be surprised at the increase in quality of Kia and the hard statement they are making out east and in the Midwest roger. I used to really dislike their brand but they have came a long way into the century we are supposed to be in, recently. Their interiors are at least competitive w/ many other luxury brands. Not a car I would really want to buy, but if they start coupling some of their nicer newer models w a decent 5 speed clutch I might have to consider giving them a second look. A nice interior is obviously not enough to fool car guys like us into trusting their automatic obviously, lol.

edit* PS Toyota and VW are arguably not imports anymore; many Toyotas are made right nearby here in my native Hoosier state Indiana, while VW is manufacturing many car models in their new state of the art facility in Chattanooga TN. Yeah, it's just 'globalism' at play but the cars are now made here in the US instead of travelling across multiple seas to get here. That's a huge reduction in MSRP's. and probably exposure to rust too.

 

[rustyroger]

Nisan, Toyota, and Honda make cars in th UK, so their cars can be considered British in the same way a USA built Toyota is an American car I guess.
Last time I visited the USA the Mazda rental car I used had a sticker stating it was "Proudly built in the USA".
It's nothing new really, in the 1920's Rolls Royce assembled cars in the USA.

Roger.

 

[theoldsone]

If you have ever had a chance to drive In any of these cars not refer to pictures its a way different experience. I can say at least 50% of new cars 2010 and up are JUNK! Ford has always been that big peice of junk like it always has been. Ex ford fusion. Toyota/Lexus isnt all too bad but you can definitly taste the plastic. Now one manufacturer I can say I was really surprised with was Cadillac. It surprised me more than any BMW.

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

Surely imports no longer have any exotic aura?. Prestige is what Mercedes Benz, BMW, and Lexus are all about, with unapologetic high prices to suit, But Nissan, Toyota, Hyundai, Kia or VW having any mystique?, I have a hard time believing that.

Roger.

They still do to some people. I still manly see inner city people driving those brands.

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

You would be surprised at the increase in quality of Kia and the hard statement they are making out east and in the Midwest roger. I used to really dislike their brand but they have came a long way into the century we are supposed to be in, recently. Their interiors are at least competitive w/ many other luxury brands. Not a car I would really want to buy, but if they start coupling some of their nicer newer models w a decent 5 speed clutch I might have to consider giving them a second look. A nice interior is obviously not enough to fool car guys like us into trusting their automatic obviously, lol.

edit* PS Toyota and VW are arguably not imports anymore; many Toyotas are made right nearby here in my native Hoosier state Indiana, while VW is manufacturing many car models in their new state of the art facility in Chattanooga TN. Yeah, it's just 'globalism' at play but the cars are now made here in the US instead of travelling across multiple seas to get here. That's a huge reduction in MSRP's. and probably exposure to rust too.

They only manufacture a fraction of their cars here, they still import many of their cars in. Despite where they are made, the profits are still exported into another country, which makes it hard to call them domestic. But I still feel imports are given way too much prasie. I have yet to see an import live up to the hype of being higher quality than an american car. Last vacation I took, rented a Hyundai and the body was cheaply built. Most cars the upper door frame is one piece, on the Hyundai it was thinway square tubing that was tack welded in a few spots. The door hinges were all tiny and flimsy, made out of light gauge stuff.

A story I heard was that years ago, the Japanese government ordered their car manufacturers to reduce rust protection to reduce the life of their cars. The idea was this would force their people to have buy cars more often to help boost their economy and GDP . Over in Japan, they have much more strict safety inspections that in the US, a car over there can fail for something minor like a paint chip or a dent. Many of the early imports to the US still had the government mandated poor rust proofing. Since then they have supposedly improved rust protection on the models for the US market, while the j* market cars still have poorer rust protection to increase turnover. Despite that I still see j* cars rusting out sooner over here in the US and they still get rust recalls. Also many of the early import drivetrains were not designed to endure speeds above 55 MPH, and many wore out quickly in the US. It is sure they have probably fixed that by now.

 

[rustyroger]

A story I heard was that years ago, the Japanese government ordered their car manufacturers to reduce rust protection to reduce the life of their cars. The idea was this would force their people to have buy cars more often to help boost their economy and GDP . Over in Japan, they have much more strict safety inspections that in the US, a car over there can fail for something minor like a paint chip or a dent. Many of the early imports to the US still had the government mandated poor rust proofing. Since then they have supposedly improved rust protection on the models for the US market, while the j* market cars still have poorer rust protection to increase turnover. Despite that I still see j* cars rusting out sooner over here in the US and they still get rust recalls. Also many of the early import drivetrains were not designed to endure speeds above 55 MPH, and many wore out quickly in the US. It is sure they have probably fixed that by now.

Urban myth, all early Japanese cars had crappy rustproofing, but so did every other maker. Certainly the modern Japanese cars over here don't have many rust issues, but neither do other makers. I don't fly a flag for Japanese cars, nor do I want to bash them unduly.
When G Bodies were current most cars were getting tired at 100k, and were pretty much done by 150k, G bodies included. Of course not all of them fell apart, and some died young. We have the survivors.
Not many importer grasped what it took for a car to cope with American roads and American drivers. Mostly a lazy large engine that could bowl along for many miles at high speed and survive spotty maintenance. VW's Beetle and Mercedes Benz were exceptions, Certainly British cars didn't cut it in North America for the most part.

Roger.

 

[jacobdavis1979]

None of it was really GMs fault. New EPA and cafe standards changed alot for the big 3. At least they replaced the good cars insted of changing the old ones. The ford guys were really hurting when the 4 banger mustang came out.

 

[pontiacgp]

Marketing has more to do with it than the car itself. How many men and women are driving a pick up when they have no use for a pick up