General Motors was ruined long ago.

[CWPottenger]

None of it was really GMs fault. New EPA and cafe standards changed alot for the big 3. At least they replaced the good cars insted of changing the old ones. The ford guys were really hurting when the 4 banger mustang came out.

What do you mean by replaced good? GM has destroyed many previously good nameplates. Taken Muscle car era classics and rebadged them as econoboxes or 4 door grocery getters.

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

Urban myth, all early Japanese cars had crappy rustproofing, but so did every other maker. Certainly the modern Japanese cars over here don't have many rust issues, but neither do other makers. I don't fly a flag for Japanese cars, nor do I want to bash them unduly.
When G Bodies were current most cars were getting tired at 100k, and were pretty much done by 150k, G bodies included. Of course not all of them fell apart, and some died young. We have the survivors.
Not many importer grasped what it took for a car to cope with American roads and American drivers. Mostly a lazy large engine that could bowl along for many miles at high speed and survive spotty maintenance. VW's Beetle and Mercedes Benz were exceptions, Certainly British cars didn't cut it in North America for the most part.

Roger.

Nope, it is the truth, j* imports at the time rusted faster than most other cars and it was their own government to blame, they even freely admit it. They did alot of stuff to inflate their economy in the 70s and 80s, but it turned around and bite them in the 90s, any good book about world economics will tell you all about it. The Japs also like to use recycled steel from other countries which also causes quality issues. The Japs and everyone else have cut alot of corrners too, not just Amercian car companies. I will say the j* cars are not the worst about rust, Italian imports have the worst rust protection and the Japs are a close second. Funny thing is rust wasn't a problem in the US until the 1950's when they first started salting roads on a large scale.

Most V8 G bodies over here reached 200K to 300K easy, base V6ers not so much. V8s tend to last longer because they do not have to strain as much as smaller motors do. Big factor is OEM non roller timing chains become streched by 30,000 miles and make a otherwise healthy engine run badly. It is why a double roller upgrade is a really good idea. Stock MCSSs have dropped a quarter second off the 1/4 times with just a better timing chain installed. My 305 has 100K on it and still has good compression, and still runs great. I had to take a head off to get a broken exhaust bolt removed, and saw the cylinders still had factory crosshatching at 100K with no upper ridge. Alot of Toyota fans make a big deal about how their motors still having cross hatching at 100K, well GM does too. SBCs from the 80s onward had much better machining combined with higher operating temps and CCC carbs extending engine life.

Going back to my Dad's old Toyota truck, it was more rusted out than American trucks that were much older than it. He was embarrassed by its many rust holes, all four fenders looked like swiss cheese. It was also plagued with transmission and transfer case problems new from the dealership. As I said before, my Regal still has nowhere near the amount of rust the Toyota had despite 25 additional years. The Regal has less rust than his 04 Ford pickup, however, pickups seem to rust faster than cars in general.


A good part of the US is called the rust belt for a reason, it gets colder than most parts of the UK and many areas like to overdo it on the salt. At times the air can reek of salt, it is pretty gross really. Unlike Japan or Europe, distances in the US can be far greater and the weather can get far worse.

My gradfather did love his beetles, mainly for being cheap cars at the time, but they were quite weak. He often had to get out readjust the carb and change jets so it could make it up steep hills. That is one thing he did hate about them, but they were cheap and good on gas so he lived with it. But they didn't suffer the rust issues j* cars at the time did.

 

[jacobdavis1979]

What do you mean by replaced good? GM has destroyed many previously good nameplates. Taken Muscle car era classics and rebadged them as econoboxes or 4 door grocery getters.

Well I guess you got a point there.
For some reason i had F body on the brain. And thats sad because i hate F bodies. I wasnt even thinking of how they changed the Regal and I OWN A 92 it was right in my face HAHA.
Now that im thinking of it i cant say that GM should have ditched all the great names like Impala, Monte Carlo, Malibu for marketing reasons. Sure we all love are old A, B, G bodies etc. and want them to have just ended insted of being transformed into FWD 4 banger specials. But when you look at it from a casual consumer stand point and not a car guy stand point. The casual customer can say wow an all new re design of the famous Malibu its a great defined car with good mileage to rival that of Toyota Camry and Honda Civic as opposed too like the Chevy Cobalt hasnt made a name for itself at the time yet so they would probly just buy the import. GM giving all the cars new names insted of old ones could have hindered sales.
Then you got the car guy on the other side saying wow they ruined a great car. Which is true but if all they had was V6 and V8 RWD cars that barley got 20 mpg big and bulky then the Imports would have took over alot worse than they already did. Just because the casual consumer is the majority of the market and not the car guy.

 

[pontiacgp]

There were many reasons which lead GM to produce boring cars. GM was strapped with pension payments and the influx of cheap Japanese cars that were built with no unions and the Japanese government subsidized the car manufacturers to flood the North American market. GM had to find a way to try to compete and the fwd cars appeared.