halp me!!

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cutlassguy

Master Mechanic
Dec 15, 2011
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:rofl: i'll take it on chin, i aint going back to fix nuthin...im not disagreeing because the vin says it all but when i buy parts (an oil pressure sending unit) they ask engine code Y or 9 and the Y parts didnt look anything like the 9 part which was an exact match. i think i would've been happier if you BSed me an made me believe i had the H/O lol but all that aside, what is CCC? the "cops cant catch" package? i definately dont have that if thats the case. this guy before me changed the color from green to black so he painted everything you can see, no stickers in the engine compartment, painted over on the doors and trunk...well ill have to check the trunk but im pretty sure they're painted too...not 100% tho :roll: so what would 0 degrees be at on the tab? the tube? did you get a chance to check out the pic? today i set it to the 3rd outer point from the tube and its running decent but i still think shes off by a bit. i was thinkink i might try it on the inside point above and then below where its at and see what each of those is like.
 

cutlassguy

Master Mechanic
Dec 15, 2011
350
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hey back to the vin, any idea what the carline series means? also does the seqential build number mean it was the 313101 car to roll off the assembly line? damn quebec'ers!! they dont even want to be a part of canada :rofl:
 

DoubleV

Royal Smart Person
Feb 25, 2011
2,154
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Medina Ohio
Here's pic of a Chevy timing tab; http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/chevy-t ... 78514.html . If that doesn't help, I can't help you because I'm not a Chevy guy.

CCC stands for Computer Command Control. It means your car's running 'on the computer'. You definetly need to know this. Just look at your carb. Does it have a 3 wire plug going into it from the front and a 2 plug connector ( probably blue ) going to it from the top of the carb? If so, that's a CCC carb. Your distributor should then have NO vacuum advance for the timing. Instead it should have a big 4 wire connector. If so, you have a CCC distributor. You MUST have BOTH a CCC carb AND distributor OR both a non CCC carb and distributor. You cannot interchange.

When you check your timing on a CCC setup, you MUST disconnect the 4 wire connector on the distributor. If you're running a non CCC setup, you MUST disconnect the vacuum line ( and plug it ) going to the distributor. Reconnect your sh*t after you set the base timing. If '0' is stock for base timing, I'd try bumping it a couple more and see it it runs better that way.
 

cutlassguy

Master Mechanic
Dec 15, 2011
350
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that links bunk, it says its been deleted...i have a vaccum to the dist. so its not CCC. i guess what i need to find out is what each point on that tab means, and where zero is. i adjusted it to the 3rd tab from the tube...now i need to know where zero is so i know what that 3rd point means. it runs ookk but not 100%...
 

DoubleV

Royal Smart Person
Feb 25, 2011
2,154
406
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Medina Ohio
No, the link is not bunk. Did you scroll down to the pic in the second post?

If you're not running on the CCC system then all bets are off as to what the timing curve of your distributor is, so there's no way of knowing what the base timing needs to be set at. You need a dial back timing light or a distributor with a known curve unless you want to just wing it which I don't think is a good idea.

Why aren't you able to clean off your timing tab, use a flashlight and just look at what the numbers on the tab are? They were designed to be able to read them ( when they're clean ).
 

cutlassguy

Master Mechanic
Dec 15, 2011
350
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ill check it out tomorrow, if i see numbers after i clean it, i wont bug anyone with anymore posts about this. i just find it strange that i come on a g body website and theres no-one thats timed a 87 cutlass/305?? i obviously gave the tech section of this website too much credit lol ill just adjust it until i find out what works best. so far im close so its just a matter of advancing or retarding it a bit. once again it seems my ear can make it run better than some bs timing light. what does it matter where it lines up if it runs better than whatever gm suggest's. thanx for the help brother but this is getting to me so ill just figure it out on my own.
 

CHRIS.O

Royal Smart Person
May 26, 2011
1,432
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I did some googling for you and found from a couple different sources that base timing on an lg4 is 0 degrees. Looks like most go up no more than 6 degrees.
 

DoubleV

Royal Smart Person
Feb 25, 2011
2,154
406
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Medina Ohio
cutlassguy said:
i just find it strange that i come on a g body website and theres no-one thats timed a 87 cutlass/305??

Well you're forgetting the fact that your engine isn't stock dude. How are any of us supposed to know what distributor someone else put in there? If it ain't stock then we have NO way to know. What if the distributor only gives you 14* of advance? You would need the base at about 20*. What if the distributor gives you 24*? Then you'd want your base at about 10-12*. You see? We simply don't know. YOU need to get a dialback light if you want your timing precise. Do you know how much vacuum advance your cannister provides? We don't either! Ported or manifold vacuum? Beats me!

Another thing, not many people have Canadian Cutlasses here anyway, so you can only expect so many people to be able to provide you with the correct answer.

BTW, I got that timing tab pic and the base timing for a stock LG4 engine from a quick google. The answers are out there.....
 

cutlassguy

Master Mechanic
Dec 15, 2011
350
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my bad, i checked that site out again and your right it does have a good pic with what every point is. sorry man. that being said, i realized i have mine set to 8 degrees and its close so ill assume 6degrees is correct. thanx guys!! do people actually set it all the way to zero? if so, why? or is it just start at zero and bring it up until each individual motor runs at what it likes.
 

DoubleV

Royal Smart Person
Feb 25, 2011
2,154
406
83
Medina Ohio
Base timing depends on alot of things. Yes, an engine can run well set at 0 base timing because the distributor is set up that way. For example;

You have a stock smogger 305 ( non CCC ) and the specs call for the base timing to be set at 0. Man that seems low doesn't it? But dig a little deeper. The distributor give alot of vacuum advance ( lets say 20* ) and you have it connected to manifold vacuum ( meaning the vacuum is 'on' at idle ). That means at idle, you'll have 20* total timing ( 0 base + 20* vacuum ) which allows your small cammed engine to purr like a kitten.

Now lets look at total timing. Most engines would run best somewhere around 36* total timing. Total timing is your base timing ( without vacuum advance factored ) + what the distributor gives you. The timing a distributor gives you ( called centrifical advance ) is COMPLETELY independant of what the vacuum advance gives. A distributor is designed to give you more timing advance as the RPM's rise untill a certain point where it doesn't give you any more. You need to know how much the distributor is giving you. If you have your base timing set at only 0. then you'd need the distributor to give you 36* to achieve the 36* total you'd want ( 0 base + 36* from the distributor ). Now if you're base timing was set to 12*, then you'd need a distributor that gives you 24* if you wanted to achieve your goal of 36* ( 12* base + 24* from distributor ).

Distributors are also shown as showing where the RPM it will give you ALL of it's advance in by. For example, a distributor would be shown as being '24* @ 3000 RPM'. That means it will give you 24* maximum advance at 3000 RPM's and higher. It would give you less at lesser RPM. It should give you no advance at idle.

So as you can see, you really gotta know exactly what you have and set it all up correctly if you want best idle, performance, and milage. If you want more indepth info, just Google this and you'll get more info than you'll ever need.

P.S. My engine has 16* base timing and my distributor gives me 20* centrifical advance at 3000 RPM and above. My vacuum advance gives me a max of 14* of vacuum. So at idle, my engine is at 30* ( 16* base + the full 14* of vacuum advance + 0 from centrifical because I'm not at a high enough RPM for it to kick in yet ). The absolute maximum timing my engine could ever see would be 56* at 3000 RPM or higher and during light part throttle cruise where my vacuum advance is able to give me my full 14* of vacuum advance ( 16* base + 20* of centrifical + 14* vacuum advance = 56* ).
 
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