has anyone else heard about this?

[supkylesup]

Im with GP403 on this one
sounds like a bunch of BS to me

 

[GP403]

found this here... http://www.chevytalk.org/fusionbb/showt ... id/183197/ ...and its more than 2 yrs old.

I did (well tried to do) a bit of research to find out the "truth" and mostly found either folks screaming "OMGWTFBBQ Where's my ZDP?!?! My engine's gonna fry!" or people selling ZDP additives. Usually together on the same page. YMMV of course.

The Starburst Oil Myth -- The latest myth promoted by the antique and collector car press says that new Starburst/ API SM engine oils (called Starburst for the shape of the symbol on the container) are bad for older engines because the amount of anti-wear additive in them has been reduced. The anti-wear additive being discussed is zinc dithiophosphate (ZDP).

Before debunking this myth, we need to look at the history of ZDP usage. For over 60 years, ZDP has been used as an additive in engine oils to provide wear protection and oxidation stability.

ZDP was first added to engine oil to control copper/lead bearing corrosion. Oils with a phosphorus level in the 0.03% range passed a corrosion test introduced in 1942.

In the mid-1950s, when the use of high-lift camshafts increased the potential for scuffing and wear, the phosphorus level contributed by ZDP was increased to the 0.08% range.

In addition, the industry developed a battery of oil tests (called sequences), two of which were valve-train scuffing and wear tests.

A higher level of ZDP was good for flat-tappet valve-train scuffing and wear, but it turned out that more was not better. Although break-in scuffing was reduced by using more phosphorus, longer-term wear increased when phosphorus rose above 0.14%. And, at about 0.20% phosphorus, the ZDP started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling.

By the 1970s, increased antioxidancy was needed to protect the oil in high-load engines, which otherwise could thicken to a point where the engine could no longer pump it. Because ZDP was an inexpensive and effective antioxidant, it was used to place the phosphorus level in the 0.10% range.

However, phosphorus is a poison for exhaust catalysts. So, ZDP levels have been reduced over the last 10-15 years. It's now down to a maximum of 0.08% for Starburst oils. This was supported by the introduction of modern ashless antioxidants that contain no phosphorus.

Enough history. Let's get back to the myth that Starburst oils are no good for older engines. The argument put forth is that while these oils work perfectly well in modern, gasoline engines equipped with roller camshafts, they will cause catastrophic wear in older engines equipped with flat-tappet camshafts.

The facts say otherwise.

Backward compatability was of great importance when the Starburst oil standards were developed by a group of experts from the OEMs, oil companies, and oil additive companies. In addition, multiple oil and additive companies ran no-harm tests on older engines with the new oils; and no problems were uncovered.

The new Starburst specification contains two valve-train wear tests. All Starburst oil formulations must pass these two tests.

- Sequence IVA tests for camshaft scuffing and wear using a single overhead camshaft engine with slider finger (not roller) followers.

- Sequence IIIG evaluates cam and lifter wear using a V6 engine with a flat-tappet system, similar to those used in the 1980s.

Those who hold onto the myth are ignoring the fact that the new Starburst oils contain about the same percentage of ZDP as the oils that solved the camshaft scuffing and wear issues back in the 1950s. (True, they do contain less ZDP than the oils that solved the oil thickening issues in the 1960s, but that's because they now contain high levels of ashless antioxidants not commercially available in the 1960s.)

Despite the pains taken in developing special flat-tappet camshaft wear tests that these new oils must pass and the fact that the ZDP level of these new oils is comparable to the level found necessary to protect flat-tappet camshafts in the past, there will still be those who want to believe the myth that new oils will wear out older engines.

Like other myths before it, history teaches us that it will probably take 60 or 70 years for this one to die also.

- Thanks to Bob Olree – GM Powertrain Fuels and Lubricants Group

 

[stomis]

Use Valvoline 5w40 offroad racing oil if your concerned about ZDDP. We use additive with all engine break ins here. You can take it for whatever you want but the fact of the matter is if your oil doesnt have ZDDP OR some sort of substitute your flattappet cam WILL wear faster. The problem hasnt existed long enough for anyone to really see how much faster.

All we know for sure is if you break a motor in with new formula oil you can downright wipe your cam.

 

[jatguit]

I have about 10 cases of older SE, SF and SG grade oils I just fell into for free about 3 months ago.
Plus, I have a stock pile of 15-40 diesel CI-4 and CI-4 plus (NOT the CJ as it has less additives now) of Delo and rotella, and I have some GM EOS supplement, all of which I have been collecting for the last several years.
You can add some of the Blue or Red bottle STP as I have in the past. But looks like you can't do that going forward reliably.

The SL grade oils that were made for a very short while in 2004 (there abouts) I WILL NEVER use in my older cars and only in a roller camed (newer) car, as that SL grade supposedly has no additives such as ZDDP. Until it was realized they errreed by taking it out too soon and started the SM grade with adding SOME of the additives back, but still not NEAR enough for a HOT Cammed car or ANY older High Performance (flat tappet) vehicle.

It appears my stock of old oil will have some value added to it now as demand goes up.

And like was said there are a few company's, like Brad Penn, that are making racing type oil with more than the needed additives and in many viscosities, allthough it is expensive.

It is going to be interesting to see how this all plays out when the change happens and see if there are any WARNINGS on the new grade oils, a warning about using in flat tappet engines.

 

[stomis]

I have about 10 cases of older SE, SF and SG grade oils I just fell into for free about 3 months ago.
Plus, I have a stock pile of 15-40 diesel CI-4 and CI-4 plus (NOT the CJ as it has less additives now) of Delo and rotella, and I have some GM EOS supplement, all of which I have been collecting for the last several years.
You can add some of the Blue or Red bottle STP as I have in the past. But looks like you can't do that going forward reliably.

The SL grade oils that were made for a very short while in 2004 (there abouts) I WILL NEVER use in my older cars and only in a roller camed (newer) car, as that SL grade supposedly has no additives such as ZDDP. Until it was realized they errreed by taking it out too soon and started the SM grade with adding SOME of the additives back, but still not NEAR enough for a HOT Cammed car or ANY older High Performance (flat tappet) vehicle.

It appears my stock of old oil will have some value added to it now as demand goes up.

And like was said there are a few company's, like Brad Penn, that are making racing type oil with more than the needed additives and in many viscosities, allthough it is expensive.

It is going to be interesting to see how this all plays out when the change happens and see if there are any WARNINGS on the new grade oils, a warning about using in flat tappet engines.

Poor parts guys. I cant imagine all the boggled looks when people go "Wait wtf is flat tappet? Do I have that? Do I need to worry about that. OMG I'm gonna die! My Cars gonna explode now! Ahhhhhhhhh"

People are dumb...

 

[MD13ailey]

so it has officially started. we (carquest st helens oregon) got our first boxes of API SL this morning. it was delo 400, valvoline 5W30 and our carquest oil in 5W30. so keep you eyes peeled and read the bottle. or one could run the vavvoline 851 non street legal race oil or joe gibbs hot rod oil or install a roller. and there r other options just be aware