Have high powered factory cars ruined hotrodding???

[zdeckich]

I had not heard of this event. If I had motivation, I'd put the 2.72 Australian B&W rear axle that has been sitting in my garage for 12 years in my TTA and crank up the boost. The 2+2 doesn't do that well in the 1/2. It doesn't catch/pass C5's/Mustangs/4th gens until around the 3/4 mile mark.

We did a 1/2 mile racing event about 10 years ago at a small airport in Nebraska. I'd be running down cars like a freight train, then would run out of runway... a couple of the cars DID run out of runway, because the shutoff area was short and most brakes don't get a 140-160 to zero full effort stop too often. I remember turning off and seeing in my rear view mirror a guy in the next pair of cars blowing by the turnoff @ at least 70 mph, not slowing down with smoke coming out of the fenderwells.

My future brother in law helps run Redbird. I'm surprised he has never mentioned this.

It's a lot of fun, been the last 3 years, last few years I was in my C5 Z06 and this year will be in my V. Last time it was at Sulpher Springs. Another 1/2 miles is Runway Rivlary. They usually run a 1/2 rolling start at Caddo Mills. It's ok but not as good or as fun as Wannagofast. Hope to see you there.

 

[307 Regal]

I'd only say "ruined" if you are talking about what hot-rodding used to be. More so, the game has been changed and has become more expensive. It's not so easy to be King of the Hill anymore. When I stop and think about it it makes my Buick 350 swap seem like an absolute waste of time and money. Sure it's more powerful than my Olds 307 was, albeit far scarier to beat on. But I kick myself for not sticking to my guns on an LS swap, which would have been faster still, and practically the same cost. So instead, my SBB with cam, headers, and intake is maybe pushing 240hp (I hope) while I live in constant fear of another ruined camshaft, ala Buick oiling problems.

All this being said, I think the problem lies within ourselves. The problem is that we're all driving antiques but we're not treating them as such. Sure they sound tough and they draw a crowd whether we like it or not, but we mistake that for relevance in modern performance way too often. Why are we pushing these antiquated things to such high standards? I know it's rewarding to hot rod, but why didn't we start with a better platform? Why aren't we all looking at modern engines? Because we all drank the legendary muscle car Koolaid. Show up to a gas station, car meet, wherever, and watch the admiration. Show up to a race of any kind without tens of thousands in swaps and mods, you might as well be driving a model T. Sure, a musket can make something just as dead as an AR-15, but don't show up expecting to clean house in a modern fire fight. Every industry pushes for improvements over the years, and if you don't keep up with it you get left in the dust. Muscle cars are experiencing that now. They're getting more and more extreme to keep up. Sure we can go buy a Schwartz Chassis and do a turbo LS swap, but do we not realize how extreme that is? We're saying that in order to be competitive with a G body, we literally have to put the body on a race platform. We are essentially talking about making street legal stock cars. That's not hot rodding. That's building a race car. With race cars, all bets are off.

I realize some of this sounds harsh, so I apologize, but take this to heart: Do your absolute best to enjoy your car for what it is. A beautiful old automobile, with a little bit of fun mixed in by the owner. A pleasure to look at and refreshing to drive. Don't ask it to beat a new GT500, and don't feel bad when you get beat by a new Challenger R/T.

 

[Jeff L]

I realize some of this sounds harsh, so I apologize, but take this to heart: Do your absolute best to enjoy your car for what it is. A beautiful old automobile, with a little bit of fun mixed in by the owner. A pleasure to look at and refreshing to drive. Don't ask it to beat a new GT500, and don't feel bad when you get beat by a new Challenger R/T.

Absolutely could not have said it better.

Those with the skills that can transform a car into a monster horsepower machine or a perfect show car is what hot rodding is. But the hobby is not the same for everyone. What I have experienced over the past 40+ years of driving and being a car crazy nut is many have differing views of what our cars should be, how good they look, how fast they go, but we all have that common bond of liking a certain make of car.

I bought my SS new in late 84. I remember when everything was brand new and looked good. As I posted in other threads I drove my car, enjoyed it, and took care of it best I could. Or deal with issues like when life would throw zingers and I am not able to replace things right away like a worn headliner. But that is ok. Car runs good, needs a paint job some day, but after almost 33 years with it you overlook some of the problems because it becomes more then just a car. My car is not perfect, not even when it was new, but it has brought me years of enjoyment that no amount of money can equal. It brings back memories of my 20's when I bought it, went to cruises, drove it all over New England, took it to college. This could have been any car, but it wasn't. It was the SS and with that kind of history who cares if a Prius or most of todays cars are better and faster. Nothing today can replace those 30+ years of memories.

 

[shadyduk1979]

Technology and knowledge will keep making cars faster and faster. It broke my heart one day to see the all to familiar guy with a muscle car doing under the speed limit. I go to pass him in my bolt on modded Subaru STI without downshifting or switching out of stock tune. I hear him get on it hard and look over to see a ss396 first gen camaro as I sailed past him with minimal effort.

That said my bmw will eat modern cars for breakfast lunch and dinner and it turns 36 years old in a few weeks. No creature comforts at all, but it has around 500 wheel and weights 1800 lbs fully loaded in it's current form. Not the fastest off the line but once I get into boost its all over.

It's all what you build you car for. Don't worry about the latest offerings from the oems. Enjoy your cars. My sti is a daily driver that doesn't bore me to death. My bmw I built to embarrass every car that comes to a autox or road course. And my Camino is being built to be a nice cruiser that can be driven anywhere

 

[jiho]

It doesn't always have to be a dick comparing contest.

Especially when it's someone else's dick! 😀

But seriously, raw useless performance that was handed to you on a silver platter will never be as interesting as some oddball old relic. When I was a kid, my neighbor built a '49 or '50 Ford with a flathead V8. Of course it couldn't match the latest Big Blocks, but who cared?

 

[Mikej89]

I'd only say "ruined" if you are talking about what hot-rodding used to be. More so, the game has been changed and has become more expensive. It's not so easy to be King of the Hill anymore. When I stop and think about it it makes my Buick 350 swap seem like an absolute waste of time and money. Sure it's more powerful than my Olds 307 was, albeit far scarier to beat on. But I kick myself for not sticking to my guns on an LS swap, which would have been faster still, and practically the same cost. So instead, my SBB with cam, headers, and intake is maybe pushing 240hp (I hope) while I live in constant fear of another ruined camshaft, ala Buick oiling problems.

All this being said, I think the problem lies within ourselves. The problem is that we're all driving antiques but we're not treating them as such. Sure they sound tough and they draw a crowd whether we like it or not, but we mistake that for relevance in modern performance way too often. Why are we pushing these antiquated things to such high standards? I know it's rewarding to hot rod, but why didn't we start with a better platform? Why aren't we all looking at modern engines? Because we all drank the legendary muscle car Koolaid. Show up to a gas station, car meet, wherever, and watch the admiration. Show up to a race of any kind without tens of thousands in swaps and mods, you might as well be driving a model T. Sure, a musket can make something just as dead as an AR-15, but don't show up expecting to clean house in a modern fire fight. Every industry pushes for improvements over the years, and if you don't keep up with it you get left in the dust. Muscle cars are experiencing that now. They're getting more and more extreme to keep up. Sure we can go buy a Schwartz Chassis and do a turbo LS swap, but do we not realize how extreme that is? We're saying that in order to be competitive with a G body, we literally have to put the body on a race platform. We are essentially talking about making street legal stock cars. That's not hot rodding. That's building a race car. With race cars, all bets are off.

I realize some of this sounds harsh, so I apologize, but take this to heart: Do your absolute best to enjoy your car for what it is. A beautiful old automobile, with a little bit of fun mixed in by the owner. A pleasure to look at and refreshing to drive. Don't ask it to beat a new GT500, and don't feel bad when you get beat by a new Challenger R/T.

By the late 1980's/early 1990's real "big block muscle cars" were starting to be worth something, so "rich guys" would show up at the track with them and get destroyed and then go back to the weekend car show circuit and brag how their gross HP cars were somehow really "under rated". I attended a few of the Muscle Car Review magazine drag races which promoted stock appearing head to head racing since the 1980's and my nearly stock 225HP convertible 5.0 was faster than nearly every small block @ 14.1.

The fast street cars were all nitrous cars and mid to high 10's you were the king of the track,

To get a turbo regal to run low 12's@110, you just follow the recipe mods that had been on the internet since the early 1990's: replace the dead factory fuel pump, Make an adjustable wastegate (about $6 in parts and tools), K&N cone air filter, port the turbo elbow with a dremel tool, test pipe for the cat, either dump the exhaust behind the test pipe or put on a new cat back exhaust with straight thru mufflers, 237 fuel pressure regulator fuel from a fwd car like a grand am -$5 at the junkyard (for 45psi) then add a chip (like the $25 Thrasher 108), put in rase gas and sticky tires, set the boost to 18-20 psi and you are pretty much guaranteed at least mid 12's.

I was running low 12's before I even bought a scan tool. MPH falls off when the computer retards timing. The trick is to stay conservative and make small changes. You slowly add boost and add octane or lower boost if trap mph began to fall.

By the late 1980's/early 1990's real "big block muscle cars" were starting to be worth something, so "rich guys" would show up at the track with them and get destroyed and then go back to the weekend car show circuit and brag how their gross HP cars were somehow really "under rated". I attended a few of the Muscle Car Review magazine drag races which promoted stock appearing head to head racing since the 1980's and my nearly stock 225HP convertible 5.0 was faster than nearly every small block @ 14.1.

The fast street cars were all nitrous cars and mid to high 10's you were the king of the track,

To get a turbo regal to run low 12's@110, you just follow the recipe mods that had been on the internet since the early 1990's: replace the dead factory fuel pump, Make an adjustable wastegate (about $6 in parts and tools), K&N cone air filter, port the turbo elbow with a dremel tool, test pipe for the cat, either dump the exhaust behind the test pipe or put on a new cat back exhaust with straight thru mufflers, 237 fuel pressure regulator fuel from a fwd car like a grand am -$5 at the junkyard (for 45psi) then add a chip (like the $25 Thrasher 108), put in rase gas and sticky tires, set the boost to 18-20 psi and you are pretty much guaranteed at least mid 12's.

I was running low 12's before I even bought a scan tool. MPH falls off when the computer retards timing. The trick is to stay conservative and make small changes. You slowly add boost and add octane or lower boost if trap mph began to fall.

You sound like you're not very fond of "the muscle car guys" lol. They were rich in the late 80's/early 90s? I've heard of guys buying 440-6pack Cudas, etc. for 3 grand back then... I know that was probably a lot for a used car then but it sure beats 70 grand lol.

 

[307 Regal]

This could have been any car, but it wasn't. It was the SS...

That choice of words reminds me of exactly how my friends refer to my car. I've had it as my first car since 2008. It's always "the Buick" or "the Regal" like an old friend. It's never "your car" or anything vague. I guess that's what I've really gotten out of hot rodding. Something familiar that makes my friends happy, and something that I know inside and out. Sure I enjoy autocrossing it when I can, but I could enjoy that in any car (and probably place better too). Even though I might be happier in a 4th gen "New Edge" Mustang or a decent condition 240SX or, hell, even a Monte Carlo SS (a seemingly easy jump to make) I have a hard time actually getting rid of the ol' Buick. That's what hot rodding has become for me. Like an arranged marriage I guess. I could've done better for myself, but she's a good old gal and I can't divorce her.

 

[oldmansmonte]

Sorry to hear that. Does that crate motor have a bigger than stock cam? What made you go as low as 3.73's?

It does. It's the classic gm performance HO 350. Cam specs:

Camshaft Lift (in.): .435 intake / .460 exhaust
Camshaft Duration (@.050 in.): 212° intake / 222° exhaust

Why do you say the 3:73's are low?

 

[Mikej89]

Camshaft Lift (in.): .435 intake / .460 exhaust
Camshaft Duration (@.050 in.): 212° intake / 222° exhaust

Why do you say the 3:73's are low?[/QUOTE]

I guess for the street I consider anything beyond 3:55's to start getting on the "low side". The 3.73's aren't that low, it's all a matter of perspective I suppose. I had a '78 El Camino with the lowest HP 350 ever made in it (1973 L65 2bbl with 145hp). But it was a stump puller with 255 lb ft@2400rpm. With that motor the super high stock gears of 2.29 or 2.41 actually worked great with the power band of that engine (not sure which it had).

 

[oldmansmonte]

Camshaft Lift (in.): .435 intake / .460 exhaust
Camshaft Duration (@.050 in.): 212° intake / 222° exhaust

Why do you say the 3:73's are low?

I guess for the street I consider anything beyond 3:55's to start getting on the "low side". The 3.73's aren't that low, it's all a matter of perspective I suppose. I had a '78 El Camino with the lowest HP 350 ever made in it (1973 L65 2bbl with 145hp). But it was a stump puller with 255 lb ft@2400rpm. With that motor the super high stock gears of 2.29 or 2.41 actually worked great with the power band of that engine (not sure which it had).[/QUOTE]


Ok I gotcha. Truthfully I was afraid to go with a 3:23 or 3:42, be somewhat satisfied and then want more. In this case I think I'm there anyways. I don't think even if I get the transmission right that i'll enjoy the 3:73's that much. The concept of my car was a cruiser with some decent power. Technically I already had that. I had no complaints about how it drive but I just had to mess with stuff. I could easily see myself changing to 3:23's(highest that carrier will handle) in the near future.