i've changed my mind (about engines)

[G_Body_Enthusiast]

i love my buick V6. its taken everything ive thrown at it and gave me a smile in return but....rather than rebuilding it or buying another buick V6 to replace it i've decided to go with a SBC.

god help me. i looked at my experience in rebuilding engines, which is virtually none so that was ruled out fasted. i also weighed the cost of a rebuild 3.8 Vs power. i am NOT a HP freak but 110 HP just does not cut it for me, i need more.

so i looked at SBC 350's and i see this new one sold almost everywhere. 249 HP and 304 ft lbs. of torque. this makes the buikc V6 look like a real boat anchor. now a rebuilt buick 3.8 will cost me a good 2200 plus. and i still need lots of parts to take it off the computer, distributor, carb etc. then i need parts like headers cuz im NOT using stock exhaust manifolds if i'm going through all the trouble of getting a rebuilt engine. and after all that im still looking at a stock cam and MAYBE 150 HP if i press my luck. basically i need a cam for it and i have no experience putting one in so...i'm SOL for that IMO. for 1500 bucks i get a brand new 350 and since i'd have to buy all kinds of parts for either engine like headers and a carb and distributor...the cost would be about the same.

so by going with the 350 i get more power that is drop in ready to go Vs buying a rebuilt 3.8 or paying to have mine rebuilt which would easily cost more than 1500.

i love this old engine but the old gray mare aint what she used to be. with chevy parts being easier to find and cheaper in many cases i think this is a better choice for me.

now this means changing the fuel lines from the left side to the right side and other BS but...i think ultimately i will be much happier since i have a larger choice of parts to choose from. i dont plan on doing anything to the engine itself since it provides the amount of power im looking for a daily driver and that means not voiding the warranty on it, something i couldnt do if i put a cam into a rebuilt 3.8.

i considered the 4.3 V6 but for the cost of changing everything to a SBC, i might as well go with 2 more cylinders and be happier in the long run.


i still might do a write up for the buick V6 but i think i'm done with this engine in my own car. that means i'll have a 4.1 intake up for sale soon.

 

[85 Cutlass Brougham]

I would also talk to a local machine shop to see what they can do for you for that price. That is how I did my 350. Basically, mine is just a 2 bolt cast crank 350 with ordinary rods, and cast flat top rebuilder pistons. Then I added better heads, a $15 junkyard intake, and a better cam. My carb cost me $35 from a junk van (plus a bit more for tuning), and the old HEI distributor was $10 plus the cost of new advance weight bushings, a cap and a rotor. My engine idles smoothly, has tons of torque and is very reliable and also more fuel efficient than the V6 in city driving. I did my swap 12 years ago, but I think the total cost was $1700 for the long block. I have since swapped to a better cam and rockers, but it is essentially the same engine I used to deliver pizza with. Comp Cams built a nearly identical engine to mine (cam, heads, compression, etc.) and it made over 350 hp and 400 ft/lbs of torque with 16 in/hg manifold vacuum, so you know it idled well.

Just remember that the standard rebuilder type piston is dished, which will give horrible compression and combustion efficiency. This will affect idle quality, low end torque and fuel economy negatively. My general specs on my engine are: .030 over 350, 9.5:1 compression, World Products S/R torquer heads with 2.02/1.60 valves, Comp Cams XE 262 cam, Edelbrock Performer intake, 800 cfm Quadrajet (modified by me), Edelbrock headers and Y pipe, and a recurved HEI from a Caprice wagon. It idles at around 700 rpm, and pulls hard to around 5500. I also used 3.23 gears and a TH 2004R transmission as part of the overall package. One of the secrets to a great running street engine is to use a Quadrajet that is set up right. It allows a lower idle speed, and builds much more torque on the bottom end. This allows you to use less throttle to get moving and subsequently, less fuel in normal driving situations. I had an Edelbrock Performer 600 (Carter AFB) on it before, and there is a big difference between the square flange Edelbrock and the spread bore Quadrajet. The Edelbrock is my default street carb for aftermarket, but given the choice the Quadrajet can't really be beat on a driver. Stay away from Holleys! You will need to constantly tinker with it to keep it in tune. The Quadrajet and Edelbrock are pretty much set and forget because of their style of primary enrichment. Holleys are not as well suited for daily drivers that see minimal maintenance. Plus, if you use a Quadrajet, you can use the factory TV cable and brackets. This is important because improper geometry for the TV cable spells death for your transmission, and the right brackets to adapt a Holley or Edelbrock are not cheap.

 

[G_Body_Enthusiast]

well here's the thing, its easier to find rebuild kits with pistons for a SBC than it is for a buick V6. that's another reason. it doesnt have to be a new 350 BUT...i know machine shops can sometimes screw stuff up and trying to rpove they did it is impossible since if they dont want to believe they were at fault which requires dropping their ego and admitting they might have made a mistake which will cost them more time and probably money to fix...they dont want the hassle. i really dont want that hassle. yeah 350's are pretty common but even that can be messed up by a machine shop.

needless to say i dont trust any machine shops in my area based on what others have said in the past regarding them.

 

[Blake442]

I think you'll be happy with the results of swapping to a 350. I wouldn't put any money into a V6 unless it was a turbo car. You're already spending the money, so you might as well get a little more out of your dollar, right?

 

[supercrackerbox]

Yes, bang for the buck it is very hard to beat a SBC. There's a reason it's the only American engine to sell more copies than the Buick 3.8 V6- They are quite possibly the perfect engine.

STILL, I'm both a purist and a rebel at heart. That's why my Regal is getting nothing less than a Buick 455.

 

[G_Body_Enthusiast]

yeah well i'd like to do a pontiac 400 or 455 but finding headers wont be easy and pontiac engines are no cheaper than buick V6's really.

pontiac engines are my first choice but things have to be done with the most bang for the buck so SBC it is.

i wanted to keep the buick V6 to be an oddball and show the V8 guys that not all V6's need SFI and a turbo to keep up but really its not worth it trying to make a point noone but myself really cares about.

 

[85 Cutlass Brougham]

I do know what you mean about machine shops. I have a few I deal with who tend to be reputable, but some are just awful. Another possible situation is to use a rebuilt short block with flat top pistons, then add the cam and heads yourself.

I will also add that my above-mentioned combo is not what I would build today as there are better heads for less money than the ones I used.

 

[jae]

Not sure if it makes a difference or not, but wouldn't an adaptor plate or transmission swap be needed if going from the Buick 3.8 to the Chevy 350? Do they have the same rear bolt pattern?

Not trying to cause any problems or give misinformation but was wondering... :?:

 

[olds307 and 403]

A Buick 350 is supposed to be nearly a direct swap, The same motor with 2 cylinders added on. The trans bolt pattern is only one of the differences, research. I am anti-sbc being shoved in everything but cookie cutter sbc's are everywhere for reasonable prices. Get one with a warranty. I personally like Olds v8's, sbc were no were nere as reliable till the 80's. I have yet to see a stock sbc last much past 300,000 km, Olds v8's are a different story.

 

[G_Body_Enthusiast]

I do know what you mean about machine shops. I have a few I deal with who tend to be reputable, but some are just awful. Another possible situation is to use a rebuilt short block with flat top pistons, then add the cam and heads yourself.

I will also add that my above-mentioned combo is not what I would build today as there are better heads for less money than the ones I used.

i would just get a short block and finish it off but i have no idea how to adjust the valves when i get the heads on. i was told once and it seemed like some kind of voodoo. i watched it but it didnt make sense. so i really need something i can just drop in and bolt stuff onto.

Not sure if it makes a difference or not, but wouldn't an adaptor plate or transmission swap be needed if going from the Buick 3.8 to the Chevy 350? Do they have the same rear bolt pattern?

Not trying to cause any problems or give misinformation but was wondering... Question

yes and TCI makes one for 60 bucks. but i am considering putting in a 2004r because i want to run something better than a 2.41 gear which i have now, like a 3.42 gear. so a dual pattern 2004r isnt hard to come by.

A Buick 350 is supposed to be nearly a direct swap, The same motor with 2 cylinders added on. The trans bolt pattern is only one of the differences, research. I am anti-sbc being shoved in everything but cookie cutter sbc's are everywhere for reasonable prices. Get one with a warranty. I personally like Olds v8's, sbc were no were nere as reliable till the 80's. I have yet to see a stock sbc last much past 300,000 km, Olds v8's are a different story.

while i agree in spirit, my wallet disagrees loudly. a buick 350 would be pretty cool but then i run into the problem of finding headers for it and other affordable parts. same with olds and pontiac. there's a 69 cutlass 350 for sale on craigslist for 500 bucks, still runs from what i understand but...by the time i get it rebuilt and get all the parts for it...its gonna cost more than a SBC. had i not been a knucklehead and tried to get back the cutlass i lost years ago i would have had a 330 rocket to use. but that car is long gone. impound lots dont keep your car for over a decade.