Exactly, and I've fixed too much stuff from "expert shops" on these swaps. Seen way too much hack work.
LS Swap in 86 Grand Prix 231 3.8 V6
- Thread starter rodmit86
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I had a guy who was buying a bunch of used body/interior parts off and on trying to convince me he was able to install ls swaps into cars in a weekend for under $200 each plus engine cost, and "didn't need any fancy mounts, pans, exhaust, and the like."
Maybe you got some of his cars....
No, but I might want whatever he's smoking if I ever get kicked down that low and need a good escape from reality..
rodmit86, I would highly suggest reading a bunch of build threads (here and LS1tech) and form a plan of what you ultimately want out of your car. For example, if you want to modernize it with EFI, overdrive, etc then you will need to do the full swap, like computer/wiring, fuel system, entire drive train, cooling, hardware, etc.. or if you want just a modern V8 but like the carburetor that will save you some effort as it eliminates a lot of wiring and fuel upgrades but you still have drive train, cooling, hardware to deal with. Either way it's an expensive and time consuming project, but worth it IMO.
All that said, companies that offer swap components make it incredibly easy to get all the pieces that will work well together. If you have the budget it is a big time saver. And there are so many options now with crate engines and transmissions if your budget allows. I am really impressed with Summit's 5.3l long block for $3500. That is pretty awesome. I went with the used drivetrain and had to rebuild the trans, and am still dealing with a smoking issue. I would have gone the reman'd engine route if it had been an option and I knew better. 🙂
Don’t like the LS? What’s not to like?? Yea, lots of guys doing them, that’s because they’re worth doing. I can tell you with confidence that you will never go back.
You can pick up a junkyard 5.3/4l60e for $1000-$1500 complete with all accessories, grab some Holley mounts and trans mount, Strange driveshaft $350, Summit Racing has a Be Cool radiator that fits great for $300, used LS6 cam and you will be loving it. Fires up first time always, can sit in traffic and not worry about over heating, makes great power for the investment. You’ll have to swap all those items if you go with an old V8 anyway so why not move forward.
Personally I’d go right to the Holley Terminator also, it will pay itself off quickly. You’ll have to spend a lot getting the factory harness done, and getting the factory ecu flashed and in the end you still have no control over your engine and trans. With the Holley you can control everything and not be at the mercy of someone else.
It’s a lot easier than you think, it’s just when you throw a turbo on it where it gets involved.
You can pick up a junkyard 5.3/4l60e for $1000-$1500 complete with all accessories, grab some Holley mounts and trans mount, Strange driveshaft $350, Summit Racing has a Be Cool radiator that fits great for $300, used LS6 cam and you will be loving it. Fires up first time always, can sit in traffic and not worry about over heating, makes great power for the investment. You’ll have to swap all those items if you go with an old V8 anyway so why not move forward.
Personally I’d go right to the Holley Terminator also, it will pay itself off quickly. You’ll have to spend a lot getting the factory harness done, and getting the factory ecu flashed and in the end you still have no control over your engine and trans. With the Holley you can control everything and not be at the mercy of someone else.
It’s a lot easier than you think, it’s just when you throw a turbo on it where it gets involved.
Having done an LS Swap myself if I had it to do over again - GM Connect and Cruise baby -
Okay so here is the run down your in for.
1. Harness - engine where to put that computer - in the car in the trunk - then LT1Swap.com for pin outs of your computer
2. Piss off the wife by taking over kitchen table for a month at least sorting and OHM out the harness to get rid of everything not needed
3. Send off ECM to have it modified for your car
4. decide what is your SCOPE - Cost and Time - basic Project Stuff - DO not CHANGE this or you will not finish it
5. Get everything you need first -
a - The car aka platform
b - The engine Transmission and rear end
- engine prep - oil pan wet or dry sump
- Battery relocation
- trans cooler lines - decide on transmission 4l60 the 6l80 or 4l80 all have different cooler line connections and drive shat length - Yoke ofr rear end - drive shat torque tube to prevent drive shat ripping through floor when it comes apart might be 2 miles might be 200k miles
- create a spread sheet with everything you research and put a price tag next to it for a budget then prioritize items to get.
- Frame modifications anything over 400 Hp you get torque steer in rear end You need to box the frame reinforce the control arms and rear package tray - figure $3k for that if you take it to a good frame shop it MUST be Square
What is torque steer( hit throttle right side goes up - rear end goes left and car flips as a 180 spin - G-Body frames are stamp steel and wonky.
- save money on powder coat - media blast weld up and reinforce the frame then use the Rustoleum industrial gloss black - comes out looking powder coated.
- All said and done I have about 3500 hours (1980 hours a year less holidays and vacations) hours and $16k in the car
c- Fuel lines and fuel tank - 4.3 V6 EFI is a direct bolt in with the sump already in it
Fuel Pump Walbro makes a good one - be prepared to solder your sending unit and pump mounts together.
d - Brake Lines - Stainless Steel Tubes sells a complete kit
e - Cooling fans - Firebird 98 - 92 or Monte Carlo later 90s fit well too or impala SS 2005 ish
f - a place to have the car lifted and frame taken out - I used cinder blocks 4x4s an engine hoist (Engine and trans removed before starting the frame off)
g - wiring lots of it
simplify - The connect and cruise has fuel pump, Wiring and engine trans already done - when ordering tell them what its for and they will have it ready - option is to take your car to a dealership and they do it all and you have a warranty on the drive train - cost is between $13k to $30k depending on the engine and transmission combo - or spend hours on kitchen table and in the garage for about 9 months evenings and weekends. I integrated a 2012 La Crosse Buick center console fabricated the mounts and everything. --> https://www.chevrolet.com/performance-parts/connect-cruise-powertrain-systems
The DIY route its all on you- anything goes sideways you have to figure it out most garages just turn away unless you already have a good relationship like I did and they let me use there lift a couple times.
the good or PRO is you know every angle of the car from the body mounts to the wire tape used and the colors - yes my wiring harness is color coded and ALL wires have a label on them as to what they go to.
Painless performance - painless wiring LT1swap.com Original Parts Group OPGI / Dixie Monte Carlo / Mikes Monte (I got my fuel tank there) SSTubes for the brakes ALL replaced new e brake cables everything underneath is new nothing used.
Okay so here is the run down your in for.
1. Harness - engine where to put that computer - in the car in the trunk - then LT1Swap.com for pin outs of your computer
2. Piss off the wife by taking over kitchen table for a month at least sorting and OHM out the harness to get rid of everything not needed
3. Send off ECM to have it modified for your car
4. decide what is your SCOPE - Cost and Time - basic Project Stuff - DO not CHANGE this or you will not finish it
5. Get everything you need first -
a - The car aka platform
b - The engine Transmission and rear end
- engine prep - oil pan wet or dry sump
- Battery relocation
- trans cooler lines - decide on transmission 4l60 the 6l80 or 4l80 all have different cooler line connections and drive shat length - Yoke ofr rear end - drive shat torque tube to prevent drive shat ripping through floor when it comes apart might be 2 miles might be 200k miles
- create a spread sheet with everything you research and put a price tag next to it for a budget then prioritize items to get.
- Frame modifications anything over 400 Hp you get torque steer in rear end You need to box the frame reinforce the control arms and rear package tray - figure $3k for that if you take it to a good frame shop it MUST be Square
What is torque steer( hit throttle right side goes up - rear end goes left and car flips as a 180 spin - G-Body frames are stamp steel and wonky.
- save money on powder coat - media blast weld up and reinforce the frame then use the Rustoleum industrial gloss black - comes out looking powder coated.
- All said and done I have about 3500 hours (1980 hours a year less holidays and vacations) hours and $16k in the car
c- Fuel lines and fuel tank - 4.3 V6 EFI is a direct bolt in with the sump already in it
Fuel Pump Walbro makes a good one - be prepared to solder your sending unit and pump mounts together.
d - Brake Lines - Stainless Steel Tubes sells a complete kit
e - Cooling fans - Firebird 98 - 92 or Monte Carlo later 90s fit well too or impala SS 2005 ish
f - a place to have the car lifted and frame taken out - I used cinder blocks 4x4s an engine hoist (Engine and trans removed before starting the frame off)
g - wiring lots of it
simplify - The connect and cruise has fuel pump, Wiring and engine trans already done - when ordering tell them what its for and they will have it ready - option is to take your car to a dealership and they do it all and you have a warranty on the drive train - cost is between $13k to $30k depending on the engine and transmission combo - or spend hours on kitchen table and in the garage for about 9 months evenings and weekends. I integrated a 2012 La Crosse Buick center console fabricated the mounts and everything. --> https://www.chevrolet.com/performance-parts/connect-cruise-powertrain-systems
The DIY route its all on you- anything goes sideways you have to figure it out most garages just turn away unless you already have a good relationship like I did and they let me use there lift a couple times.
the good or PRO is you know every angle of the car from the body mounts to the wire tape used and the colors - yes my wiring harness is color coded and ALL wires have a label on them as to what they go to.
Painless performance - painless wiring LT1swap.com Original Parts Group OPGI / Dixie Monte Carlo / Mikes Monte (I got my fuel tank there) SSTubes for the brakes ALL replaced new e brake cables everything underneath is new nothing used.
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Oh one other Option get a wrecked 2005 Impala SS or a 2010 Camaro and just swap everything over...
I dd forget the dash - this is all digital and I got the Dakota digital Gauges and connected it to the ECM
The only thing I could not figure out is Cruise control and the A/C wiring but its time to get those sorted out.
Also the $16 k is no paint job so have one with a good paint job if you can - I am trying to figure out what color I am going to paint this one. The Monte Carlo LS has a 4 color scheme now, base coat with a tint and the clear coat is tinted so it changes color based on the light.
I like orange and was thinking a sunburst orange or copper rusty orange with gun metal grey trim - up in the air and not a high priority .
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A 5.3 with a small cam, a 4L80E, the right converter and rear gears makes for a fun, naturally aspirated driver. Bigger is better on naturally aspirated setups, so if you can pay the 6.0 tax, get a 6.0. If you're going to boost it, a 4.8 will work well. Depending on your perspective, a naturally aspirated 4.8 will also run good with the right converter and rear gears. Especially relative to the stock V-6 or any of the stock V-8's of the day, in stock tune. 4.8's and 5.3's are relatively inexpensive. Try to find one that you can hear run and was well maintained (documented maintenance). Some 4.8's and 5.3's in Cargo Vans had 4L80E's behind them. If you are going to stay completely stock, a 4L60E behind a 4.8 or a 5.3 might be ok but I wouldn't go that way. That opens up lots of pickups as donors though.
If you're looking at having someone do all the work, and you're going to do the supporting improvements (suspension, brakes, chassis stiffening, rear gears, etc.) it's going to get pretty expensive. Don't be surprised if you spend well north of $20k paying a shop. If you could find someone like some of the guys on here who have the knowledge, talent and can do the fabrication, you'd be ahead. Problem with that is most of us are consumed with our own projects.
What is your realistic budget?
If you're looking at having someone do all the work, and you're going to do the supporting improvements (suspension, brakes, chassis stiffening, rear gears, etc.) it's going to get pretty expensive. Don't be surprised if you spend well north of $20k paying a shop. If you could find someone like some of the guys on here who have the knowledge, talent and can do the fabrication, you'd be ahead. Problem with that is most of us are consumed with our own projects.
What is your realistic budget?
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