LS VS Oldschool

[olds307 and 403]

Vanrah, keep an eye out for wise engineering at the Engine Master's Challenge. Hopefully it will be a good showcase of his Olds heads, very similar to the SB2 head. We also have the diesel and Nascar blocks, both very strong and still out there for Olds. The oiling issue seems to be more of a BB Olds issue, huge stroke, weight and 3" journals. Personally I don't want a motor that needs 9 grand to make it do what I want. Many Olds V8's are pushed well past 7 grand. The LS is very weak down low, stock. Rev it up and comes to life quickly. It takes off where my 307 headed Olds 350 in my 94 Z71 starts to die, pointless for a truck engine, unless you live in the mountains.

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

Can't beat those flatheads...!

When all your arguments have failed, just go to the old standby of Appeal to ridicule Fallacy which oftens dovetails into Strawman Fallacy or Appeal To Ignorance.

 

[82Calais]

I picked up a Craigslist '03 5.3 with 220,000 miles for $350
Motor, harness, computer

Found a Craigslist 4L80E for $250

For reliability, power potential, drivability LS wins. Might be a pain to put in my '82 but I'll deal with it.

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

I picked up a Craigslist '03 5.3 with 220,000 miles for $350
Motor, harness, computer

Found a Craigslist 4L80E for $250

For reliability, power potential, drivability LS wins. Might be a pain to put in my '82 but I'll deal with it.

Even for an LS that is alot of miles racked up and probably should be rebuilt. That is why it was sold for so cheap. If it was 100K it would be okay to just stuff into your car.

 

[Randy_W]

Can't beat those flatheads...!

When all your arguments have failed, just go to the old standby of Appeal to ridicule Fallacy which oftens dovetails into Strawman Fallacy or Appeal To Ignorance.

Nothing wrong with my argument, just no need of dealing with stubborn hard heads, so I don't. The flatheads remark was meant as a joke, not a slam at anyone.
You're convinced you know best, no point in taking it further with you. Enjoy your SBC's, they're great engines. 8)

 

[Randy_W]

There's a still in truck 5.3 that you can run on CL for $450, he said I could get the entire harness, PCM and any other engine related stuff included. 102000 miles.

 

[CWPottenger]

Can't beat those flatheads...!

When all your arguments have failed, just go to the old standby of Appeal to ridicule Fallacy which oftens dovetails into Strawman Fallacy or Appeal To Ignorance.

just no need of dealing with stubborn hard heads, so I don't. The flatheads remark was meant as a joke, not a slam at anyone.

Obviously you love the LS series and they are a good motor. They also are arguably more complex as far as engine management and for some me included don't care for all the extraneous parts, sensors, wires, etc to get the same thing accomplished as you can with 3 wires on a carb'd SBC. Does new technology offer benefits? Hands down yes, but at the same time simplicity is it's own reward.

I personally dislike the aesthetics of the LS series engines.

 

[Randy_W]

Looks wise, hands down I like the look of the LT1 over the LSx, but for function I like the LS series. Neatness is not a concern because I tuck, armour, hide route everything so that it's hard to tell there is all that wiring.
How much extra wiring do you notice?

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

I don't really care about wiring, computers, or how a motor looks. Problem is there cost vs return ratio which still isn't that good. The fact is when you retrofit an engine into a car that is not designed at all for it is going to cost alot since everything needs to be changed out. You have to turn a pre OBD1 car into a modern OBD2 car. You have to swap in a stock LS harness with all the sensors and OBD2 emission systems for a legal swap. Run EFI fuel lines, install an in tank fuel pump. Buy a host of mounting adaptors and the correct oil pan. Most likely you would have to install DBW which I hate the very idea of. For the best results you should install a modern trans behind the LS motor which requires a new crossmember, cooler lines, shifter links, etc. Then comes custom exhaust that needs how many cats the LS motors come stock with (modern cars usually have more than one cat). Yes there are shortcuts but some are either illegal or cripple what the LS can do. In the end you could still install an SBC that makes the same power, use the factory CCC to get near the same MPGs and drivability, reuse most of the parts that came in the car, and be way under the cost of an LS swap.

 

[Randy_W]

I don't really care about wiring, computers, or how a motor looks. Problem is there cost vs return ratio which still isn't that good. The fact is when you retrofit an engine into a car that is not designed at all for it is going to cost alot since everything needs to be changed out. You have to turn a pre OBD1 car into a modern OBD2 car. You have to swap in a stock LS harness with all the sensors and OBD2 emission systems for a legal swap. Run EFI fuel lines, install an in tank fuel pump. Buy a host of mounting adaptors and the correct oil pan. Most likely you would have to install DBW which I hate the very idea of. For the best results you should install a modern trans behind the LS motor which requires a new crossmember, cooler lines, shifter links, etc. Then comes custom exhaust that needs how many cats the LS motors come stock with (modern cars usually have more than one cat). Yes there are shortcuts but some are either illegal or cripple what the LS can do. In the end you could still install an SBC that makes the same power, use the factory CCC to get near the same MPGs and drivability, reuse most of the parts that came in the car, and be way under the cost of an LS swap.

My 3 lt1 swaps were all legal in Maryland, one had in tank pump and it came that way. The harness took 4 hours to sort on the '67, all had 4l60e's. The fuel lines were as simple as using the return line which dumps directly into the canister where the pickup is effectively creating a sump with zero cost, and using a vented cap which is legal here on a car more than 20 years old. the programming cost $150. It was a half second quicker than a '67 SS 427. Total cost on the '67 including drivetrain was $2200 but that was 2001. Whole project took from Sunday to Saturday working nights 3-4 hours. If you read a little, use common sense and have a bit of know how, they ain't tht expense, are very simple and you will NEVER match the power and MPG, drivability and dependability in carbbed engine for the same money if you do it correctly. You may get one but not all. My one LSx swap took a weekend, was an LS1 into a '75 Formula, took a weekend, cost $1800 total, the exhaust is a matter of making a Pair of down pipes, just how damn hard is that?
If all you want is quarter mile times and nothing else, you might be able to match those for the money but you won't cone close on the others. Whatever ones priority is I guess.