LS VS Oldschool
- Thread starter CamaroAdam73
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I initially wanted a Pontiac 455 for my 85 GP but stupid emissions laws around here wouldn't allow it... and the emissions "legal" 350 I put together to replace the 305 sucked just as bad!.... SO I decided a ls series engine! and when coupled with the t56 even my legal swap hauls for what it is for a stock ls1... Now I wish I would've have done a 6.0 or a 6.2.... :wink: But i'm gonna settle and build the ls1 till it blows or it scares me... 
BTW fuel economy is waaaaay better then any carbed engine I've owned. I will admit it though and am gonna try to buy a emissions exempt ride and stuff a big block with a big ol dinosaur juice drinking carb :evil:
BTW fuel economy is waaaaay better then any carbed engine I've owned. I will admit it though and am gonna try to buy a emissions exempt ride and stuff a big block with a big ol dinosaur juice drinking carb :evil:
I never understood the raging hard on people have for the sbc. It was a fair motor at best in stock form. The LS is a different story, reliable and efficient. While they just OK in stock form in trucks, my 94 equals the 5.3/4L70E power wise, idle to about 4500 rpm. Up top and fuel mileage, definitely the LS has the advantage. The mileage people get out the 5.3 even carbed is impressive plus very good track times in G bodies. That said I love the SBO Olds, ran circles around the sbc durability wise and moved large cars with ease with awful gearing. Bernard also offers the Procomp's with the their parts and he checks them over. $1099 is a great price. I wish they would offer a 65-70cc chamber size for us SBO guys. Benard told me, he would go down to 70cc max with these heads. I am sure they can be decked more, it was all he was comfortable with.
In hindsight I would've gone LS instead of Pontiac 455....I think the GTO covers would have looked nice too :lol:
If you want a properly built engine with longevity, then you will spend money regardless of what it is. Upgrading to a roller valve train, aluminum heads, a modern piston design, a good set of rods, and quality machining will blow $5k out of the water real quick. A used LS engine comes stock with modern materials/better machining tolerances and can be had much cheaper.
Big blocks are heavy, the LS is light. I'd take fuel injection over a carb for a daily driver without question. There's no matching brute torque but it boils down to what you use the car for I suppose. I'm all for nostalgia but the older I get the more I like reliability and some kind of gas mileage.
If you want a properly built engine with longevity, then you will spend money regardless of what it is. Upgrading to a roller valve train, aluminum heads, a modern piston design, a good set of rods, and quality machining will blow $5k out of the water real quick. A used LS engine comes stock with modern materials/better machining tolerances and can be had much cheaper.
Big blocks are heavy, the LS is light. I'd take fuel injection over a carb for a daily driver without question. There's no matching brute torque but it boils down to what you use the car for I suppose. I'm all for nostalgia but the older I get the more I like reliability and some kind of gas mileage.
Anubis said:
I really wish i would have known about all that 5-6 months ago...would have totally gone that route instead of a stock modified set of early 350 rocket heads. I have a 403 not a 455 btw. Just a thought, those Edelbrock heads with the big chambers(77CC) would be a good start for a boosted 455 right?
Has anybody on here done a Boosted 455 build? Turbo not supercharged.
Well there is no question the LS motors have many improvements in them over older GM motors. Though most of those improvements can be installed into a older GM motor but the prices will be close.
While many say LS motors go for cheap, I have yet to see them go for cheap. Then installing a motor into a car never designed for that motor and changining everything over from SBC, SBO, whatever to OBD2 LSX is still not cheap. Plus the learning curve for modern OBD 2 EFI systems with learning how to read and edit 3D maps and other such things. It's pretty much just a huge change from everything we were used to. You have to relearn everything again. By the time we get used to all the new tech, they will come out with something new and more complex. Everything becomes obsolete, SBCs, SBOs, and all the other older GM motors are slowly going the way of the Ford flat head V8 and model T. Heck one day even the LS motors will go that way as the next big thing comes along either being another IC engine design or something completely different like electric motors or some other form of new power plant. Just enjoy what you have, if you don't then get something else. I won't worry about keeping up with the Jones since that is a quick way to end up broke and never happy.
As to Olds307, don't knock on SBCs so much. They are very reliable motors that can live till 300K easy. My old 305 still had hatch marks and no ridge at 100K on it's cylinders (had to pull the head to remove a snapped off exhaust manifold bolt). Even with the emissions "junk" and computer it still makes 240 HP and gets 20 MPGs. One of the things I learned is that 80s and 90s SBC blocks are much better than 70s and older blocks, better iron and machine work. I never understood the rivalries the different GM guys seem to have.
85GP, I don't know what you did, but there is no way an emissions legal 350 should suck if designed and built right. It's tech alot of hotrodders did not want to learn, now with the even more complex LS stuff you have to.
While many say LS motors go for cheap, I have yet to see them go for cheap. Then installing a motor into a car never designed for that motor and changining everything over from SBC, SBO, whatever to OBD2 LSX is still not cheap. Plus the learning curve for modern OBD 2 EFI systems with learning how to read and edit 3D maps and other such things. It's pretty much just a huge change from everything we were used to. You have to relearn everything again. By the time we get used to all the new tech, they will come out with something new and more complex. Everything becomes obsolete, SBCs, SBOs, and all the other older GM motors are slowly going the way of the Ford flat head V8 and model T. Heck one day even the LS motors will go that way as the next big thing comes along either being another IC engine design or something completely different like electric motors or some other form of new power plant. Just enjoy what you have, if you don't then get something else. I won't worry about keeping up with the Jones since that is a quick way to end up broke and never happy.
As to Olds307, don't knock on SBCs so much. They are very reliable motors that can live till 300K easy. My old 305 still had hatch marks and no ridge at 100K on it's cylinders (had to pull the head to remove a snapped off exhaust manifold bolt). Even with the emissions "junk" and computer it still makes 240 HP and gets 20 MPGs. One of the things I learned is that 80s and 90s SBC blocks are much better than 70s and older blocks, better iron and machine work. I never understood the rivalries the different GM guys seem to have.
85GP, I don't know what you did, but there is no way an emissions legal 350 should suck if designed and built right. It's tech alot of hotrodders did not want to learn, now with the even more complex LS stuff you have to.
85GP said:Yeah I know but when I decided to replace the 305 with a stock cam 350 targetmaster 350 it still hauled but got it's *ss whooped by a newer Cadillac... and it failed the smog test test twice using the most of the stock equipment. I used a edelbrock 1405 carb which I know wasn't right but I sent my q-jet to get rebuilt and it came back from the rebuilder and it was worse!! now I did the ls1 swap, and got it certified, smogged, and plated in a day!!
From what I have heard, Targetmasters are lower quality SBCs (poorer iron and machine work) from Mexico with low 8.5 CR and restrictive cylinder heads, pretty much low output SBCs that make 190 HP. That is about the same as a stock SS 305, so not much of an improvement. Probably not the best thing to compare to a LS since Targetmasters are just cheap replacement motors to get a car running again, not performance motors. In any case, you really need to know the specs of a motor to tune it.
It is sad Qjet tuning is a dying art, but tuning can only due so much for a LO motor.
It is sad Qjet tuning is a dying art, but tuning can only due so much for a LO motor.
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