LS VS Oldschool

[jdietschweiler]

btw a 6.0 with a cam swap should get you close to that magical 500/500 a $300 vic jr or cheaper intake and a $300 msd 6010 will switch it to carburation. I used my truck oil pan.

IIRC, the truck 6.0 LS was rated for 345/360. A cam swap will add 155 HP and 140 ft/lbs of torque? The only LS engine in stock form to get close to those numbers are the LS7's right? LS7's are BIG money. If I go LS, retaining EFI is a must.

heres a cam only lq4 (6.0) dyno

http://m.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1555459

380 whp + (pick your % drivetrain loss) and your close. +-50hp

heres one with 415whp

http://m.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread. ... 892&page=3

search lq4 cam only dyno and see for yourself

 

[online170]

Not sure where some of these #'s are coming from but I have less than $2000 in my LS swap... That includes motor/ trans.... This was my 1st gbody LS swap and went as smooth if not smoother than some of the other swaps I've done!!!!

You have a 4.8L LS engine.

The old iron big blocks all hover around the 360ish HP, and 480 to 500+ lb/ft for a stock build. You can buy and rebuild, and definitely buy one not needing rebuild for (or less than) $2000.

So unless you are approaching those power figures its not relevant. The guys quoting costs are referring to LS2's or LQ4's 6.0L which were closer to that output.

 

[vanrah]

Greetings Guys & Blue Knight; Mr Knight are you from Janesville? And if you are, have I met you? We should get together for a beer. I have some experience with auto engines (Madison area tech school 1971). I got an "A" in that course, the only time I ever got an A in anything. So this past spring we (good buddy) disassembled his LS6, just down to the short block. Cam & lifters gave up including the oil pump. Just a few of cost differences, oil pump $115+, timing cover gasket 4 times the cost of a SBC gasket, Intake gaskets double + the timing chain was three times the cost of the SBC and so was the valve springs. So in conclusion LS engines cost more, but my God they make a sound that I can't get enough of and so much power from so little weight. My favorite LS feature is the valve layout. Will some after market manufacture make some canted valve heads in the future? I should add that when my buddies car was on the dyno with the cam that took a dump it made 427 HP to the rear wheels. But the price was high, it only lived 22.000 miles. So the lesson we learned was LS engines don't oil as well as the old SBC engines. If you are going to hot rod an LS engine we learned that many oils will NOT give adequate life with fast ramp hi lift cams, so be very picky what oil you use. I had many conversations with Mr Sparks from Comp Cams about oil and now my buddy is using Driven LS30 in his engine vs Mobil 1 15-50 recommend by Lingenfelter back in 2005. Things change, more R&D has been done since then and Zinc is your friend. Bob Jr.

 

[jdietschweiler]

Greetings Guys & Blue Knight; Mr Knight are you from Janesville? And if you are, have I met you? We should get together for a beer. Bob Jr.

Hi Bob, How are you? Yes I am from Janesville but no I dont believe ive ever met you personally. I know that we know some of the same people (Kurt - 69 Chevelle). Im sorry to inform you that I dont drink........










too many beers so yeah that sounds like a good idea. 🙂

So how have you been? Have you sold your M80 yet?

 

[Randy_W]

Greetings Guys & Blue Knight; Mr Knight are you from Janesville? And if you are, have I met you? We should get together for a beer. I have some experience with auto engines (Madison area tech school 1971). I got an "A" in that course, the only time I ever got an A in anything. So this past spring we (good buddy) disassembled his LS6, just down to the short block. Cam & lifters gave up including the oil pump. Just a few of cost differences, oil pump $115+, timing cover gasket 4 times the cost of a SBC gasket, Intake gaskets double + the timing chain was three times the cost of the SBC and so was the valve springs. So in conclusion LS engines cost more, but my God they make a sound that I can't get enough of and so much power from so little weight. My favorite LS feature is the valve layout. Will some after market manufacture make some canted valve heads in the future? I should add that when my buddies car was on the dyno with the cam that took a dump it made 427 HP to the rear wheels. But the price was high, it only lived 22.000 miles. So the lesson we learned was LS engines don't oil as well as the old SBC engines. If you are going to hot rod an LS engine we learned that many oils will NOT give adequate life with fast ramp hi lift cams, so be very picky what oil you use. I had many conversations with Mr Sparks from Comp Cams about oil and now my buddy is using Driven LS30 in his engine vs Mobil 1 15-50 recommend by Lingenfelter back in 2005. Things change, more R&D has been done since then and Zinc is your friend. Bob Jr.

One guys longevity isn't that good of a marker, performance LSx engines will generally outlast any previous engine of similar tune. The tolerances, design and materials are just superior.

 

[Clone TIE Pilot]

btw a 6.0 with a cam swap should get you close to that magical 500/500 a $300 vic jr or cheaper intake and a $300 msd 6010 will switch it to carburation. I used my truck oil pan.

But that renders the swap street illegal besides defeating some of the LS's advantages.

Randy_W, SBCs last to 300K easy, my 305 with 100K still has hatch markings and no cylinder ridge. V8s tend to last pretty long in general.

 

[CWPottenger]

But that renders the swap street illegal besides defeating some of the LS's advantages.

For many there are no emission regulations or our cars are aged out so not an issue to even think about when planning a swap.

 

[CWPottenger]

I have been out of this thread mostly because it follows the same line as any other vs comparison. Unless you level the playing field the discussion is just an opinion piece.

To honestly compare a LS to an "oldschool"

1st must pick a similar displacement
2nd must pick a similar HP/Torque output
3rd must only use retail prices from same vendor ( one can always find that killer deal that other can't or have that friend that can do fab work for 6pack and pizza)
4th must have a common start point for platform (ie: same stock factory original vehicle)
5th must include EVERY piece, part, modification cost to make it a running driving vehicle .


Short of that there is no honest comparison. Personally I think both have pros and cons that make them both great and both poor depending on use, cost, complexity, ease of maintenance, appearance, etc.

 

[Randy_W]

I have been out of this thread mostly because it follows the same line as any other vs comparison. Unless you level the playing field the discussion is just an opinion piece.

To honestly compare a LS to an "oldschool"

1st must pick a similar displacement
2nd must pick a similar HP/Torque output
3rd must only use retail prices from same vendor ( one can always find that killer deal that other can't or have that friend that can do fab work for 6pack and pizza)
4th must have a common start point for platform (ie: same stock factory original vehicle)
5th must include EVERY piece, part, modification cost to make it a running driving vehicle .


Short of that there is no honest comparison. Personally I think both have pros and cons that make them both great and both poor depending on use, cost, complexity, ease of maintenance, appearance, etc.

Exactly, but in this case the LS is so much better and lighter that it can give up a few cubes, otherwise I agree and is pretty much what I said.

And as for the SBC going 300k, some do, most don't . My current Vortec in my Tahoe has 167k and doesn't use a drop of oil or make any noise. But on a consistent bases the newer engines will outlast them and even the efi versions of the old engines will live far longer than carbed versions.

 

[online170]

I have been out of this thread mostly because it follows the same line as any other vs comparison. Unless you level the playing field the discussion is just an opinion piece.

Well said! Welcome to the internet 🙂.