LS VS Oldschool

[CamaroAdam73]

Back tot he subject of oldschool Vs LS...

Who said you can't build an olds to compete with an LS? I didn't want to argue because the advantages of the LS are obvious, but i forgot about a build that pretty much claims otehrwise for the facts...and its done with a 403

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/engine ... ewall.html

That engine came with a price tag though that probably blows the cost for LS/LSX build out of the water..

I forgot about these guys too

http://www.nelsonracingengines.com/

They build 1500HP+ daily driver Boosted SBC/BBC, LSX, Ford, and Mopar. Not a good arguing point though, i think these guys machine allot of parts and bring the design of the older engines up to speed.

 

[Randy_W]

I understand and agree with your point ONLY if you are going for a max performance build. I will make more power per dollar with a moderate 455 Olds build that should break into the 11's. If you need to go faster than that in a G body then get out the checkbook and spring for a $12,000 LS7 crate motor.[/quote]
More power than what? I'll guarantee you a 6.0 LSx can be built with more power, cheaper than a 455 of any brand if you're starting from scratch and talking about a streetable engine. It will also drive better, get better MPG and be lighter, making it brake and handle better. Not trying to be an *ss, I love the old stuff, been a Pontiac guy all my life, love the BOP engines, but truth is what truth is, times have changed.[/quote]

Randy, no offense taken. I'm listening and intrigued by your response. Can you put a list of costs together for swapping in a new (or very low mileage used) LSx 6.0 into your 85 442 that will produce 500 hp / 500 ft-lbs? I would like to see the real numbers. Make sure you include everything needed to do the swap correctly (no Jim Bob shortcuts with a welder and gas ax). We could make this a sticky for others on the site.[/quote]

I understand what you're asking, now you do it and I will too. Start with a 455 you go buy in average condition and I'll do the same, I'll list the same quality of part as you do, I'll get as much machine work done as needed and you do the same. I have little doubt that I can build 500 h.p., though that's a lot more stout than I care about in my street driver, as cheaply as you can. It will be lighter, stop and handle better as well. I don't own the motor I'd build on paper and you don't either, both from scratch.

 

[online170]

I think at 500hp the LS has the advantage for HP/$.


Figure out what it costs to aquire a 6.0L LS or LQ, plus the cost of a bare bones rebuild. I would guess it totals about $3000 to $4000. Below that dollar figure you COULD build old iron and get more HP/$. Beyond that dollar figure, the LS rules.


In both cases, you can substitute some stock parts for high performance, like camshafts, and valve springs. Parts for old iron are usually more expensive like pistons and rods, but bearings and rings cost almost the same everywhere. I would imagine gaskets for LS engines are probably more costly overall, and the labor on the LS is probably a bit higher for machining and assembly.





At the end of the day, the LS is the hero on the dyno, and shows huge gains with little additions. Its a real piece of engineering for sure. But at 430hp, the LS will be making 450 to 500 lb-ft of torque?

But the old big blocks will probably be closer to 600lb-ft, and a lot lower down in the RPM range.

 

[L92 OLDS]

Figure out what it costs to aquire a 6.0L LS or LQ, plus the cost of a bare bones rebuild. I would guess it totals about $3000 to $4000. Below that dollar figure you COULD build old iron and get more HP/$. Beyond that dollar figure, the LS rules.

.

You can buy 455 cores for $200. A $5k build will yield 500 hp/500 ft/lbs of torque. Just aquiring a 6.0 LS or LQ with all the stuff needed from a donor vehicle could be that much money. Then you need to dick around with engine management, fuel system and swap difficulties in a G body like the oil pan, engine mounts, exhaust, etc. I'm not convinced LS is the less expensive route for this HP level. I love the LS and there is no doubt that it is superior over old iron but need to see some data before I'm a believer.

 

[Fox80]

Figure out what it costs to aquire a 6.0L LS or LQ, plus the cost of a bare bones rebuild. I would guess it totals about $3000 to $4000. Below that dollar figure you COULD build old iron and get more HP/$. Beyond that dollar figure, the LS rules.

.

You can buy 455 cores for $200. A $5k build will yield 500 hp/500 ft/lbs of torque. Just aquiring a 6.0 LS or LQ with all the stuff needed from a donor vehicle could be that much money. Then you need to dick around with engine management, fuel system and swap difficulties in a G body like the oil pan, engine mounts, exhaust, etc. I'm not convinced LS is the less expensive route for this HP level. I love the LS and there is no doubt that it is superior over old iron but need to see some data before I'm a believer.

I agree, however this got turned into Olds vs Chevy old school, if you want to compare long block vs long block sitting on the floor, I suppose one could argue they could be built equal power for equal money, BUT you haven't installed it in the car yet, and that is when old school blows LS out if the water, even if you put a stock LS into one of these cars, you need mounts, headers/manifolds, computer and harness modified, fuel injection pump set-up will add up in a hurry. If you go carb on a LS you will save in the fuel injection part, but now need an aftermarket system to fire the coil packs, plus the intake manifold.

 

[Wulff]

I always go old school because I grew up with 'em and know them in my sleep! I built a kick-azz 406 full roller with TPI and a 6-speed and love it! Have you priced stuff like high performance coil-packs?
I figure the old school will be around longer than I will so as far as I am concerned, old school will always make me happy!
I have a High Tech BMW for a daily driver but for fun I figure I can't beat motors that can be rebuilt cheaply and not have 'weird' oil pans, etc!
To each his own of course, I know a lot of people like carburetors but I like EFI, I also like roller cams, etc. so I built my 400 SBC with all the late model stuff (for the early 90's) and I love it! 🙂

 

[jdietschweiler]

btw a 6.0 with a cam swap should get you close to that magical 500/500 a $300 vic jr or cheaper intake and a $300 msd 6010 will switch it to carburation. I used my truck oil pan.

 

[L92 OLDS]

btw a 6.0 with a cam swap should get you close to that magical 500/500 a $300 vic jr or cheaper intake and a $300 msd 6010 will switch it to carburation. I used my truck oil pan.

IIRC, the truck 6.0 LS was rated for 345/360. A cam swap will add 155 HP and 140 ft/lbs of torque? The only LS engine in stock form to get close to those numbers are the LS7's right? LS7's are BIG money. If I go LS, retaining EFI is a must.

 

[Randy_W]

I wouldn't start with a truck engine, there are LS2's all over creation, there was a complete wrecked '06 TrailBlazer SS 2wd for sale the other week on Craigslist for $4500, that not only gets an engine but a complete wiring and pcm setup that needs a $250 reprog to wring a bunch out of it. Plus a 4l60e.
LS2's can be had for $3500-$4500 if you're patient. You're starting with 400 h.p., good exhaust and cam with proper pcm tune will get you in the 450-460 range without emissions control. That's without removing a valve cover. Or you can start with the 6.0 truck engine that's on Craigslist today $1100 obo and build 500 h.p. and still be under $5000. Either way you have a major weight advantage off the nose, the more weight the further forward, the more power you have to have just to lever it into motion. And you will get far better mpg, stopping and handling. A few years ago the cost was much greater, not so today.

 

[87RegalGuy]

Not sure where some of these #'s are coming from but I have less than $2000 in my LS swap... That includes motor/ trans.... This was my 1st gbody LS swap and went as smooth if not smoother than some of the other swaps I've done!!!!