As far as swapping in a bigger engine goes, there is more to the story than most people tell you about.
Olds engines are hard to find, or at least much harder to find than Chevy engines. 403's were only used for a few years which can make them harder to find than 350's or maybe even 455's. Yeah, some people can trip over tons of Olds engines without looking, but I have yet to find an Olds engine for sale in my area, let alone anyhting in the junkyard that would have anyhting bigger than a 307. 403's are somewhat limited to how much you can bore it due to the siamesed cylinder walls like a Chevy 400. Bigger engines get less fuel mileage too, but if the 307 is out of tune it may not be getting the best mileage it can get (but it is definitely better than most if not all 455's out there for sure).
Right. In my area, Chevy's dominate everything. There's not a lot of Olds stuff running around, but the guy I bought my 442 from was a huge Olds guy, having two early 70s 442's and a 15th Anniversary Hurst. He also had a slew of parts, but he's 3 hours away one way. I haven't met any other Olds guys that live near me. I toyed with the idea of a 350 Rocket and all the OE brackets from the 307...but like I said, I want to keep it original so I'm willing to roll a 307.
The cost of a new engine is usually glossed over too. "You can get a bigger engine for less than the cost of a rebuild" is, for the most part, false. First, you have the cost of the new engine/core. Don't expect to get a used engine that is ready to drop in either, even if it is "freshly rebuilt". You can't really trust anybody anymore, and you don't know what they did to it. New engine+rebuild costs is NOT more than a rebuild itself unless you really know your stuff and have all the proper tools and space to do it. 307 parts can be found cheaper too since most people don't bother with them. You just have to search, like on eBay for example. There was a set of brand new Clevite .030 roller 307 pistons on there for $30 not long ago.
If I were to do an engine swap, I would start from scratch. I would buy a block and do it myself. I too have seen too many people get burned buying a "fresh" engine or a used motor out of Billy Bob's Z28.
Emissions/computer can be a problem too. You can swap the stuff over to the bigger small block engine, but if you hate the 307 that much, why would you put it's smog equipment on your new engine? Also, messing with all that stuff in the first place can cause problems.
Forgive me if I come sounding that I hate a 307, because I don't. 🙂 If I were to do a motor swap, the emissions junk isn't going back on. I don't want to take away from the originality of the vehicle, I like keeping them looking how they looked on the showroom floor when they were new. That's why I'm looking for small performance ups on the 9-code.
Like you said, "hollowing-out" the cat is a good idea. I'm not sure how it effects the drivability/emissions, because the 307 in my car is worn out (the previous owner obviously didn't change the oil much, if at all) which lead to a number of problems. Hollowing out the cat REALLY woke up the engine. It won't pass emissions tests though, especially if you have a decent amount of blow-by. I have a cat that I put back on for the testing which is promptly taken back off.
Cleaning out the cat really won't effect the drivability of the car, even with the emissions. I did this on both my 86 & 88 MCSS, and never had an issue. It did, however, improve the performance by waking the motor up a bit. Cats are just one more restriction. Lucky for me where I live we don't have emissions testing (yet). No blowby on this 307 either, heck the v/c and intake gaskets aren't even leaking!!
On the other hand, what do you consider performance? I would love to have a VIN 9 307, and plan on spending thousands to upgrade my VIN Y to H.O. spec when it gets rebuilt. 9.8 seconds to sixty and 15-16 sec.+ in the 1/4 is plenty fast for me, and I don't see why headers and true dual exhaust would hurt it either. I've been told the roller 307 is the smoothest, most reliable carbureted V8 around (almost as if it is a fuel injected engine).
Mainly I'm just looking to get a few more ponies out of it for fun. I like the idea of getting performance out of something that everyone else thinks is junk - present company forum members excluded :wink: If I were to line up, its gonna be stop light to stop light racing. I want to get it off the line with ease. So far from the info I've gathered, I'm interested in researching a new chip for the ECM. Can anyone spread more light on this? Good, bad, brand recommendations, bang for the buck? The 442 is definately not the fastest car I've had, but its quick for what it is. If it broke into the 14s that would be cool, but I'll never track this car (again, I'm too anal with it).
Thanks for all of your insight!!
Olds engines are hard to find, or at least much harder to find than Chevy engines. 403's were only used for a few years which can make them harder to find than 350's or maybe even 455's. Yeah, some people can trip over tons of Olds engines without looking, but I have yet to find an Olds engine for sale in my area, let alone anyhting in the junkyard that would have anyhting bigger than a 307. 403's are somewhat limited to how much you can bore it due to the siamesed cylinder walls like a Chevy 400. Bigger engines get less fuel mileage too, but if the 307 is out of tune it may not be getting the best mileage it can get (but it is definitely better than most if not all 455's out there for sure).
Right. In my area, Chevy's dominate everything. There's not a lot of Olds stuff running around, but the guy I bought my 442 from was a huge Olds guy, having two early 70s 442's and a 15th Anniversary Hurst. He also had a slew of parts, but he's 3 hours away one way. I haven't met any other Olds guys that live near me. I toyed with the idea of a 350 Rocket and all the OE brackets from the 307...but like I said, I want to keep it original so I'm willing to roll a 307.
The cost of a new engine is usually glossed over too. "You can get a bigger engine for less than the cost of a rebuild" is, for the most part, false. First, you have the cost of the new engine/core. Don't expect to get a used engine that is ready to drop in either, even if it is "freshly rebuilt". You can't really trust anybody anymore, and you don't know what they did to it. New engine+rebuild costs is NOT more than a rebuild itself unless you really know your stuff and have all the proper tools and space to do it. 307 parts can be found cheaper too since most people don't bother with them. You just have to search, like on eBay for example. There was a set of brand new Clevite .030 roller 307 pistons on there for $30 not long ago.
If I were to do an engine swap, I would start from scratch. I would buy a block and do it myself. I too have seen too many people get burned buying a "fresh" engine or a used motor out of Billy Bob's Z28.
Emissions/computer can be a problem too. You can swap the stuff over to the bigger small block engine, but if you hate the 307 that much, why would you put it's smog equipment on your new engine? Also, messing with all that stuff in the first place can cause problems.
Forgive me if I come sounding that I hate a 307, because I don't. 🙂 If I were to do a motor swap, the emissions junk isn't going back on. I don't want to take away from the originality of the vehicle, I like keeping them looking how they looked on the showroom floor when they were new. That's why I'm looking for small performance ups on the 9-code.
Like you said, "hollowing-out" the cat is a good idea. I'm not sure how it effects the drivability/emissions, because the 307 in my car is worn out (the previous owner obviously didn't change the oil much, if at all) which lead to a number of problems. Hollowing out the cat REALLY woke up the engine. It won't pass emissions tests though, especially if you have a decent amount of blow-by. I have a cat that I put back on for the testing which is promptly taken back off.
Cleaning out the cat really won't effect the drivability of the car, even with the emissions. I did this on both my 86 & 88 MCSS, and never had an issue. It did, however, improve the performance by waking the motor up a bit. Cats are just one more restriction. Lucky for me where I live we don't have emissions testing (yet). No blowby on this 307 either, heck the v/c and intake gaskets aren't even leaking!!
On the other hand, what do you consider performance? I would love to have a VIN 9 307, and plan on spending thousands to upgrade my VIN Y to H.O. spec when it gets rebuilt. 9.8 seconds to sixty and 15-16 sec.+ in the 1/4 is plenty fast for me, and I don't see why headers and true dual exhaust would hurt it either. I've been told the roller 307 is the smoothest, most reliable carbureted V8 around (almost as if it is a fuel injected engine).
Mainly I'm just looking to get a few more ponies out of it for fun. I like the idea of getting performance out of something that everyone else thinks is junk - present company forum members excluded :wink: If I were to line up, its gonna be stop light to stop light racing. I want to get it off the line with ease. So far from the info I've gathered, I'm interested in researching a new chip for the ECM. Can anyone spread more light on this? Good, bad, brand recommendations, bang for the buck? The 442 is definately not the fastest car I've had, but its quick for what it is. If it broke into the 14s that would be cool, but I'll never track this car (again, I'm too anal with it).
Thanks for all of your insight!!
