SickSpeedMonte/PTP Clutch Pedal. F-Body vs Universal opinions

What is the better long-term reliable option?

  • F-body style master cylinder

    Votes: 2 100.0%
  • Universal style master cylinder

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    2

307 Regal

Royal Smart Person
Thread starter
Oct 21, 2009
1,645
113
Northern Indiana
For pilot bearing i used a McLeod extended unit.
And i used a McLeod slave throwout bearing.
For the bellhousing i used a McLeod 8710-15, it has been out of production for at least 10 years
I wonder if the 8710-15 bell is shallower than a bell for an LS T56. Or would that be what the extended pilot is for? I know that the LT T56 has a shorter input shaft. Summit still has remnants of their 8710-15 product page and that states that Pontiac engines "may require a special pilot bushing."
 
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Rktpwrd

Comic Book Super Hero
Supporting Member
Feb 2, 2015
3,832
113
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
So, to get hydraulic fluid from the master to the slave i used an adapter on the camaro master to allow an an4 braided steel line but i don't have info on the length.
For pilot bearing i used a McLeod extended unit.
And i used a McLeod slave throwout bearing.
For the bellhousing i used a McLeod 8710-15, it has been out of production for at least 10 years

Here is a pic of the part numbers.
View attachment 197606

Thank you so much, you sir, are the man. This should take 90% of the guesswork out of the equation in my setup, and I am eternally grateful.

Like I said, the BOP to T56 bellhousing I already have, but the hydraulic TO bearing was the biggest question mark for me. Looks like I’m going to have to change my aluminum flywheel and Centerforce clutch though, as it appears McLeod doesn’t recommend using the counterweight assist style (which mine is) with their TO bearing. Did you find it necessary to shim it on the shaft at all, and if so, did it come with shims? The descriptions I can find on it don’t list any note of it.

One question though, why the use of an extended pilot bearing? It’s been a while, but IIRC, mine is a flush fit roller style and seems to have seated in the crank ok and fits the input shaft.
 

oldsmobile joe

Royal Smart Person
Nov 12, 2015
2,040
113
mpls
I wonder if the 8710-15 bell is shallower than a bell for an LS T56. Or would that be what the extended pilot is for? I know that the LT T56 has a shorter input shaft. Summit still has remnants of their 8710-15 product page and that states that Pontiac engines "may require a special pilot bushing."
An lt1 factory bell housing is shallower than the traditional sbc bell housing and shallower than the McLeod bell housing.
The lt1 style t56 input shaft is shorter than the Saginaw/muncie/borg-warner transmissions. Combine this with a 455 crank that is not finish machined for a manual trans pilot bearing, leads you to needing an extended pilot bearing. The bearing firs in the traditional torque converter pilot area and is somewhat adjustable, moveable in wards for the lt1 pilot shaft to engage and work.
As for shimming, yes i had to shim. No shims came with my parts and i was not aware that i was going to need to do this. The day i did this swap at work i did an infield fix by using an inner wheel bearing race i had lying around. Don't know the dimensions. I vaguely remember grinding something for clearance, it might of been the spacer, don't recall. I'll be changing out the clutch sometime this spring, I'll try to get picks and measurements at that time.
One last item on the swap. To avoid issues with the reverse gate lockout on the t56, i used a shifter ball with a line lock or nitrous button to activate the solenoid. See pic
IMAG0395.jpg
 
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307 Regal

Royal Smart Person
Thread starter
Oct 21, 2009
1,645
113
Northern Indiana
An lt1 factory bell housing is shallower than the traditional sbc bell housing and shallower than the McLeod bell housing.
The lt1 style t56 input shaft is shorter than the Saginaw/muncie/borg-warner transmissions. Combine this with a 455 crank that is not finish machined for a manual trans pilot bearing, leads you to needing an extended pilot bearing. The bearing firs in the traditional torque converter pilot area and is somewhat adjustable, moveable in wards for the lt1 pilot shaft to engage and work.
As for shimming, yes i had to shim. No shims came with my parts and i was not aware that i was going to need to do this. The day i did this swap at work i did an infield fix by using an inner wheel bearing race i had lying around. Don't know the dimensions. I vaguely remember grinding something for clearance, it might of been the spacer, don't recall. I'll be changing out the clutch sometime this spring, I'll try to get picks and measurements at that time.
One last item on the swap. To avoid issues with the reverse gate lockout on the t56, i used a shifter ball with a line lock or nitrous button to activate the solenoid. See pic
View attachment 197619
When you change that clutch, I'd be very grateful for a shot of the pilot busing as well. The Buick community claims to have the same problem with cranks. And I'm using a half inch spacer with my trans, effectively making my input shorter as well.
 
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oldsmobile joe

Royal Smart Person
Nov 12, 2015
2,040
113
mpls
Ok, so here is some more info you guys were looking for. I finally got around to working on the t56 clutch. A little back ground, my clutch started to develop a slipping condition. Always happened when cold but would go away when warmed up. As time went on, it continued to get worse, more prevalent. Add to this, the clutch pedal release point started to move up, meaning my clutch release point was very high off the floor. My clutch must be wearing out, so ordered a replacement.
One day after work, i pulled the transmission and clutch off and found it to be near perfect. No hot spots, no rivets touching. Flywheel didn't need resurfacing. This was a head scratcher to me. Leaving the new clutch in the box,i reassembled the clutch on the flywheel.
So i turned my attention to the adjustable hydraulic throw out bearing. Back when i originally put this kit together i used a spacer between the trans and t.o.b. try as i might back then and with another tech helping, we tried to figure out the factory instructions for proper installation of the t.o.b. but we could never get the clearance right. out of frustration we used an old bearing race as a spacer and it worked for 8 years.
Fast forward to this year, again, with freshly printed instructions for this t.o.b. from McLeod i attempted to set my clearance. My brains must leaving my head along with my hair color. I measured bell housing surface to clutch finger and then measured t.o.b. surface to trans face and kept getting results that didn't correlate with the instructions. They were hinting that i needed a bolt on t.o.b. . Well that can't be, there's no place to bolt one on. So i set the paper work to the side. I've worked on cars for 40 years, this isn't first time i found instructions to be wrong and it won't be the last. I started adjusting the threaded insert on the t.o.b., each time reinstalling the trans to check clearance. With the insert removed, i threaded it in 1/2 of a turn and checked, the fully compressed t.o.b
showed a gap of about .200". Instructions call for .100-.150" of clearance. Well, F it. It either works or it don't. I assembled everything back together and held my breath while i pushed the clutch pedal. SHT, it works! I have driven it a week so far, no slipping and no other problems.
So here are some of the other challenges when doing this set up. When using the extended pilot bearing, it protrudes from the crank far enough to interfere with the clutch disc hub. See pic. I don't know if McLeod offers a solution. I ground my hub till it fit. See pic. I know this isn't supposed to be right,but it has worked so far with plenty of abuse, with no issues.
I have included pics of the t.o.b. and a p clamp i used to support the hydraulic line.
 

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Rktpwrd

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Supporting Member
Feb 2, 2015
3,832
113
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Thanks for the update and information on this Joe. It’ll come in super handy for guys like me that haven’t installed theirs yet. So just for clarification, are you still using the bearing race as a spacer with the newly readjusted TOB?
 
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oldsmobile joe

Royal Smart Person
Nov 12, 2015
2,040
113
mpls
Thanks for the update and information on this Joe. It’ll come in super handy for guys like me that haven’t installed theirs yet. So just for clarification, are you still using the bearing race as a spacer with the newly readjusted TOB?
No, I'm not using the bearing race anymore. The second pic shows how i now have it. I now believe its set up the way McLeod meant it to be.
 
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Rktpwrd

Comic Book Super Hero
Supporting Member
Feb 2, 2015
3,832
113
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Ok, so here is some more info you guys were looking for. I finally got around to working on the t56 clutch. A little back ground, my clutch started to develop a slipping condition. Always happened when cold but would go away when warmed up. As time went on, it continued to get worse, more prevalent. Add to this, the clutch pedal release point started to move up, meaning my clutch release point was very high off the floor. My clutch must be wearing out, so ordered a replacement.
One day after work, i pulled the transmission and clutch off and found it to be near perfect. No hot spots, no rivets touching. Flywheel didn't need resurfacing. This was a head scratcher to me. Leaving the new clutch in the box,i reassembled the clutch on the flywheel.
So i turned my attention to the adjustable hydraulic throw out bearing. Back when i originally put this kit together i used a spacer between the trans and t.o.b. try as i might back then and with another tech helping, we tried to figure out the factory instructions for proper installation of the t.o.b. but we could never get the clearance right. out of frustration we used an old bearing race as a spacer and it worked for 8 years.
Fast forward to this year, again, with freshly printed instructions for this t.o.b. from McLeod i attempted to set my clearance. My brains must leaving my head along with my hair color. I measured bell housing surface to clutch finger and then measured t.o.b. surface to trans face and kept getting results that didn't correlate with the instructions. They were hinting that i needed a bolt on t.o.b. . Well that can't be, there's no place to bolt one on. So i set the paper work to the side. I've worked on cars for 40 years, this isn't first time i found instructions to be wrong and it won't be the last. I started adjusting the threaded insert on the t.o.b., each time reinstalling the trans to check clearance. With the insert removed, i threaded it in 1/2 of a turn and checked, the fully compressed t.o.b
showed a gap of about .200". Instructions call for .100-.150" of clearance. Well, F it. It either works or it don't. I assembled everything back together and held my breath while i pushed the clutch pedal. SHT, it works! I have driven it a week so far, no slipping and no other problems.
So here are some of the other challenges when doing this set up. When using the extended pilot bearing, it protrudes from the crank far enough to interfere with the clutch disc hub. See pic. I don't know if McLeod offers a solution. I ground my hub till it fit. See pic. I know this isn't supposed to be right,but it has worked so far with plenty of abuse, with no issues.
I have included pics of the t.o.b. and a p clamp i used to support the hydraulic line.

One more quick question, would it not have been easier/better to grind down the extra length of the pilot bearing rather than the face of the clutch hub? That way you don’t have to repeat the process when it comes time to change the clutch? Is it even possible, or is there something that I’m unaware of that would prevent that?
 

oldsmobile joe

Royal Smart Person
Nov 12, 2015
2,040
113
mpls
One more quick question, would it not have been easier/better to grind down the extra length of the pilot bearing rather than the face of the clutch hub? That way you don’t have to repeat the process when it comes time to change the clutch? Is it even possible, or is there something that I’m unaware of that would prevent that?
While the pilot bearing is adjustable, that is where it needs to sit to support the trans input shaft. If you adjust it in, then it won't support the shaft properly. I like your thinking, just doesn't work. At the time, i ground the disc hub as an infield fix. I didn't contact McLeod, i got the feeling their tech support had more important things to do. That was 2014, maybe that person has moved on.
These are the pains when trying to build a drivetrain that wasn't supposed to be. I'm just grateful someone was able to get me to this point.
 
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