Suspension question

[megaladon6]

if the aftermarket figured it all out, and there is no need to make a choice, why are there so many different sway bars? they have different thicknesses, different materials, and different designs because the suspension and usage (and driving styles) will vary.
in one of the more recent threads on pro-touring a guy found that his camaro handled BETTER when he disconnected the sway bar. it's just like carbs and cams, bigger is not always better.
i asked the same question as he did, on pro-tour, and got the same answer. keep the stockers until everything else is in then figure out how much to upgrade.

 

[Tony_SS]

First off, were talking about G-bodies here, Not Camaros. Apples to oranges.

Second, they are not all different sized bars for the G-bodies. They are 1 3/8" for the front and 1" for the rear. The only difference is that Hotchkis front bar is hollow (lighter), while the ST front bar is not. Otherwise they're identical.

I trust that their R&D knows a thing or to about the product they put out.

Contrary to what you believe though, the aftermarket sway bars are not going to be too stiff with upgraded springs/shocks and there's no reason to junkyard hunting for stock sway bars.

 

[85 Cutlass Brougham]

Also remember that geometry plays a huge role, as does having enough compression travel in the suspension. Inadequate compression travel will make the car ride the stops, and have an infinite spring rate. This in turn, will not allow that wheel to follow the contours of the road, and will allow it to skip across the surface, and loose traction in the corners. Plus, which bars you choose will depend on what you want it to do. They are a tuning tool, and their size and stiffness should be chosen based on what the car does, and what engine it has. I have the stock bars right now on my car, and they are fine. However, I would probably go to a larger rear bar to further neutralize the handling. There are a number of junkyard front bars of varying stiffnesses to choose from before you really need an aftermarket one, but the rear bar is a bit small for ultimate grip. Plus, some suspension companies recommend smaller front bars than stock (I.E. Global West), bigger is not always better. For some great theory articles, see if Sport Compact Car has them on their site. It is a very technical publication, and most of the editors are engineers, not just writers. That magazine taught me far more about theory than Hot Rod or Car Craft ever did. Don't worry about it being an import publication, the theory relates the same to a domestic, and most of their stuff is RWD, not front.

 

[megaladon6]

a camaro uses the same style of suspension in front as a g-body, including the sway bar. and no matter what car or suspension the sway bar serves the same purpose. so it is apples to apples. changing cars doesn't change physics.
and here's a link to sway bars on summit. i see two materials and three different sizes for the front. http://store.summitracing.com/egnse...94925130+4294839061+4294923769+115+4294907060
and a search on rear bars comes back with 5 bars, all the same size yes, but 2 different materials. (maybe 3, ST is the only one in steel that doesn't specify high-carbon steel, but it might be.) that's just a quick search on one site.
and a hollow bar is going to react differently to torsional forces (or any forces for that matter) than a solid bar. it's more than just weight.
if you look at the roger krauss racing link i posted there are tons of variables in handling and all of them can be pushed too far or not enough.

 

[Tony_SS]

there are tons of variables in handling and all of them can be pushed too far or not enough.

And scouring a junk yard for stock sway bars is not far enough as you suggested. Nor will a set of Hotchkis bars be too far.

All of those bars are steel and all are the same size except the Hellwig one and that one is 1 5/16" which is 1/16 of an inch smaller than the 1 3/8 that ST and Hotchkis put out. The 1 1/8" Addco bar is a factory replacement as they state.

Bottom line is that jonnyslick wanted to improve handling and telling him to use the factory sway bar set or not to use an aftermarket set is just bad advice.

A nice set of sway bars will compliment a good set of lowering springs and Bilstein shocks. In my case, when I ditched the factory set for the ST set, it got rid of some serious body roll. So they worked out great for me. And that's not something that I just read from somewhere.. so I'm passing along that advice - if something works out for you, share that info - otherwise you're just speculating on a hypothetical build all damn day.

 

[megaladon6]

i never said to not use aftermarket. i said to do the other mods, install the CHEAP stockers and see how it does. then he has a baseline and can figure out how much stiffer of a sway bar he needs.
and the fact remains that there are different sway bars with different sizes and materials. that means the they react differently and with different torsional stiffness. they need to be matched to the rest of the system.

 

[Tony_SS]

And the handling will still be subpar until aftermarket bars are used.

As for choices, there is steel and steel. Factory sized and aftermarket sized (with one being a 1/16 of an inch smaller)

The alignment specs and complete system need to matched as a whole, not just one set of parts matched to the rest.

 

[megaladon6]

look up steel alloys. there are thousands of different ways of making steel and they all have different properties and advantages. where i work we have at least a dozen different types and grades of steel, and that's just for bearings.
1/16 of an inch can make a huge difference. and i'm sure there are other sizes. it's not as cut and dried as you seem to think it is. if it was that simple every company would make the same thing and everyone would have the same components.
plus it's better to have great but not max performance cheaply--that will be properly upgraded, than to have great but not max performance after spending alot of money and not being able to afford to correct it.
stiff springs with little movement with stiff sway bars can add up to non-compliance and that is not fun. at that point you might as well weld everything and get rid of ALL movement.

 

[Tony_SS]

... oh Lord.. If you want to die on that hill that's fine. :lol:

I run stiff springs, larger sway bars and its a blast.. Handles great, very little body roll and I love it.

But let us know any results with your setup when you get there...

 

[jonnyslick]

^ cool thanks alot ... i like it a little on the stiff side so the aftermarket bars will probably suit my need.