I'm actually glad to hear your going with panel bond on them I was worried about spatter on your body work to the side of the center and or heat travel under the plastic.
Those primed parts look perfect!
BUILD THREAD “The Juggernaut”
- Thread starter Rktpwrd
- Start date
Those primed parts look perfect!
Appreciate it Eric, thanks.
I’m not too worried about spatter on the adjacent filler, I’ll obviously be covering it up and protecting it the best I can. I have a roll of that good 3M spark guard welding paper that I’ll be using to cover the exposed filler.
I’m also always very careful about my heat when welding sheetmeatal, but yeah I understand that heat creep is a concern for sure. Thankfully the Cleco holes are very small and won’t take much to close up. I’m more concerned about getting the panel bond too close and into the Cleco holes contaminating the welds, so I’m just going to have to make sure I stay well clear of them.
I think what I’ll do is actually cover the holes on both parts with tape when I’m spreading the panel bond, then remove the tape before positioning and clamping them in place.
That's exactly what I used to do when I mig welded everything. Fortunately now I have weld/bond technology but I don't expect you to run out and geta pro-spot lol I love the 3M paper myself unless it's very humid it gives me no issues. I'm sure whatever you do you'll do it right.
Hey guys, haven’t posted in a bit (which always means I’ve got lots to update on), and today I turned another major corner, so time to get y’all up to date.
After epoxying the backsides of the side pieces, I started making preparations to get them permanently installed. That began with putting them back in place with the original Clecos, plus strategically adding a few more.
The placement may look completely random and non-symmetrical, but I say “strategically” because that’s exactly what it was. I only added the bare minimum of extra Clecos to the areas that needed it the most. It’s a balancing act really, you want the most clamping force possible, but with the bare minimum of extra holes to have to weld up.
Once the extra Clecos were added and I was satisfied the clamping points were evenly distributed, I marked the backsides around the flanges with a pencil then removed them from the car to lay out some masking tape outside the lines:
Next step was to thoroughly scuff the flanged areas with red ScotchBrite, buff the epoxy off from around each hole, then add small tabs of tape over the holes. These small tabs of tape will keep the holes that I have to weld clear and clean of panel bond as I spread it out.
Panel bond is intended to be applied to both surfaces to be bonded, so that meant covering the holes on the body side as well. The epoxy on the trunk floor flanges has already been scuffed:
More prep work was done here as well that I didn’t take pictures of, like using the pneumatic punch to make plug weld holes in the side and wheelwell flanges. Prep, prep, prep, it’s all about the prep ahead of time.
Time for the voodoo glue. Using 3M’s 2 part Panel Bond Adhesive, 08115.
No pictures of the application of the glue, once the stuff gets dispensed and spread out things tend to get kinda messy. Short explanation of what happened though, a thick bead was dispensed to all the areas that will contact one another, then spread evenly out over the exposed areas in a nice thin layer with a filler spreader. On both the panel, and car sides.
Word of caution here - use rubber or vinyl gloves to prevent this stuff from getting on your skin. Apparently according to the WHMIS label, it can cause severe burns. Don’t skip the PPE guys, it ain’t worth it.
Once both sides of the parts had the product applied to them, the panels were carefully laid into place and the Clecos installed. I then applied pressure by hand everywhere the panel bond was, to ensure full contact was made. Thankfully I didn’t get too much “squeeze out” around the edges, any that I did get, I made sure to clean off right away with a little lacquer thinner.
This is a good project to do last thing in the evening, because it needs the next 24 hours to fully cure.
Because I can be impatient and didn’t want to wait that long, the following night I worked on plug welding up all the holes in the flange on the driver’s side wheelwell.
Side flanges to the inside wall of the sail panel…
…and the (now) fully plug welded flange to the driver’s side wheelwell:
I haven’t fully decided what I want to do with the remaining exposed portions of the wheelwells, I have some light filler in these areas and it may or may not stay. The lower plastic interior panel panels don’t fully cover these areas, so I might look at plastic welding some extensions to them to at least align with the inside edges of the flanges so it all looks complete and properly finished. I’ll pursue that more once I start fitting the interior panels back into the car.
That work alone took an entire night, so the next night I had eclipsed the 24 hour cure period and could start working on closing up the Cleco holes. More prep ahead of time to protect the filler areas from welding spatter with some 3M self adhesive welding and spark deflection paper:
After a couple hours of careful welding and grinding, I had all the holes on the driver’s side all closed up.
“Look Ma, no more Clecos!!”
If you look really closely, you will see some pinholes in the welds. This was due to a few reasons, mostly when some of the panel bond got into the area to be welded, but also because I turned the heat and wire settings way down on the welder. The name of the game here is to just close up the holes, not necessarily plug weld to the underlying surface. Too easy to create a bunch of heat damage and distortion here.
The following pics are just some of repeating the process on the passenger’s side at different points in the work.
And the passenger’s side finished up:
The pinholes in the welds will be easily fixed with a tiny skiff of filler before epoxy, much easier and less chance of causing more damage than trying to reweld over and over until all the pinholes are gone.
Late last night, I burned the midnight oil a bit and stayed up late to get the perimeters of the side panels seam sealed up. I’m using yet another 3M product for this, their Heavy Bodied Seam Sealer. The work time on it is relatively short at only 6 minutes, so you have to be somewhat quick about it. I tried my best to only dispense a very small bead of it along the edges, but with an 1/8”’ hole in the end of the mixing tip, I was somewhat limited with what I could do. I used a flexible caulking tool I picked up from Home Dopey several years ago to evenly “tool” it out in a uniform manner, it worked extremely well.
There was some excess that got outside the tool, but this seam sealer is somewhat sandable, so I’m hoping I can get that removed without disturbing the surrounding areas too much. Anyways, the finished product for now:
I’m not totally done with the seam sealer yet, I still need to back mask a couple areas in the trunk and finish sealing around the flanges in the sail panels. Then the NHRA tech inspector that once gave me crap for not having a “fully sealed” rear firewall because of the battery in the trunk, can eat my shorts.
Ain’t catching me on that again.
Once that’s done, I’m going to let the entire rear firewall sit and cure for a couple weeks before I consider spraying the epoxy on it. This is because in my experience, the seam sealer tends to shrink a little bit as it cures, and if I spray product on it before it shrinks, it’ll crack the epoxy and look like a$$.
So there you have it guys, the rear firewall is nearly done. I have a little additional seam sealer work to do, a little sanding off of the excess sealer, and some very light pinhole filler work to do, then let it sit for a bit. Once those couple weeks have passed, I’ll mask off the entire rear firewall and shoot it in black epoxy.
I mentioned turning a corner at the beginning of this post, and turn I did. Today was Mike’s turn to come by my place and help out, so with the firewall pretty much done for now, we got focused back on the floor again. First order of business was to get the rear wheels back on it, then drop it down onto the car dollies. This step was necessary to ensure that the entire weight of the car was back on it’s wheels, and that no undue stress was being placed on the exhaust system because of a drooping front end or similar.
Haven’t seen it this low in many months!!
The little man doing what he does best, thinking, or “cyphering” as he calls it.
🤣🤣
The reminder of the day was spent cutting out the sections of the floor above the mufflers, for several reasons I’ll discuss later.
Here’s a few “work in progress” pictures for everyone’s amusement. Caution: professionals at work here!
More and more of the floor gradually got cut out as we progressed and the plan evolved, but I’m extremely happy and excited about the direction it’s headed. It’s checking off all the boxes in my revision checklist, and I think the end result will be more than worth it.
One last picture, you’re gonna have to kind of squint and use a little imagination to picture the finished product, but here’s a teaser of what we’re working towards:
This part that we’re creating the cardboard template of will close in the last 85% of the remaining floor work, the hardest and most complicated piece will be left until the very end - and that will be the transition pieces over the fronts of the tailpipes.
But we’ll cross that bridge when I get to it.
All for now guys,
D.
After epoxying the backsides of the side pieces, I started making preparations to get them permanently installed. That began with putting them back in place with the original Clecos, plus strategically adding a few more.
The placement may look completely random and non-symmetrical, but I say “strategically” because that’s exactly what it was. I only added the bare minimum of extra Clecos to the areas that needed it the most. It’s a balancing act really, you want the most clamping force possible, but with the bare minimum of extra holes to have to weld up.
Once the extra Clecos were added and I was satisfied the clamping points were evenly distributed, I marked the backsides around the flanges with a pencil then removed them from the car to lay out some masking tape outside the lines:
Next step was to thoroughly scuff the flanged areas with red ScotchBrite, buff the epoxy off from around each hole, then add small tabs of tape over the holes. These small tabs of tape will keep the holes that I have to weld clear and clean of panel bond as I spread it out.
Panel bond is intended to be applied to both surfaces to be bonded, so that meant covering the holes on the body side as well. The epoxy on the trunk floor flanges has already been scuffed:
More prep work was done here as well that I didn’t take pictures of, like using the pneumatic punch to make plug weld holes in the side and wheelwell flanges. Prep, prep, prep, it’s all about the prep ahead of time.
Time for the voodoo glue. Using 3M’s 2 part Panel Bond Adhesive, 08115.
No pictures of the application of the glue, once the stuff gets dispensed and spread out things tend to get kinda messy. Short explanation of what happened though, a thick bead was dispensed to all the areas that will contact one another, then spread evenly out over the exposed areas in a nice thin layer with a filler spreader. On both the panel, and car sides.
Word of caution here - use rubber or vinyl gloves to prevent this stuff from getting on your skin. Apparently according to the WHMIS label, it can cause severe burns. Don’t skip the PPE guys, it ain’t worth it.
Once both sides of the parts had the product applied to them, the panels were carefully laid into place and the Clecos installed. I then applied pressure by hand everywhere the panel bond was, to ensure full contact was made. Thankfully I didn’t get too much “squeeze out” around the edges, any that I did get, I made sure to clean off right away with a little lacquer thinner.
This is a good project to do last thing in the evening, because it needs the next 24 hours to fully cure.
Because I can be impatient and didn’t want to wait that long, the following night I worked on plug welding up all the holes in the flange on the driver’s side wheelwell.
Side flanges to the inside wall of the sail panel…
…and the (now) fully plug welded flange to the driver’s side wheelwell:
I haven’t fully decided what I want to do with the remaining exposed portions of the wheelwells, I have some light filler in these areas and it may or may not stay. The lower plastic interior panel panels don’t fully cover these areas, so I might look at plastic welding some extensions to them to at least align with the inside edges of the flanges so it all looks complete and properly finished. I’ll pursue that more once I start fitting the interior panels back into the car.
That work alone took an entire night, so the next night I had eclipsed the 24 hour cure period and could start working on closing up the Cleco holes. More prep ahead of time to protect the filler areas from welding spatter with some 3M self adhesive welding and spark deflection paper:
After a couple hours of careful welding and grinding, I had all the holes on the driver’s side all closed up.
“Look Ma, no more Clecos!!”
If you look really closely, you will see some pinholes in the welds. This was due to a few reasons, mostly when some of the panel bond got into the area to be welded, but also because I turned the heat and wire settings way down on the welder. The name of the game here is to just close up the holes, not necessarily plug weld to the underlying surface. Too easy to create a bunch of heat damage and distortion here.
The following pics are just some of repeating the process on the passenger’s side at different points in the work.
And the passenger’s side finished up:
The pinholes in the welds will be easily fixed with a tiny skiff of filler before epoxy, much easier and less chance of causing more damage than trying to reweld over and over until all the pinholes are gone.
Late last night, I burned the midnight oil a bit and stayed up late to get the perimeters of the side panels seam sealed up. I’m using yet another 3M product for this, their Heavy Bodied Seam Sealer. The work time on it is relatively short at only 6 minutes, so you have to be somewhat quick about it. I tried my best to only dispense a very small bead of it along the edges, but with an 1/8”’ hole in the end of the mixing tip, I was somewhat limited with what I could do. I used a flexible caulking tool I picked up from Home Dopey several years ago to evenly “tool” it out in a uniform manner, it worked extremely well.
There was some excess that got outside the tool, but this seam sealer is somewhat sandable, so I’m hoping I can get that removed without disturbing the surrounding areas too much. Anyways, the finished product for now:
I’m not totally done with the seam sealer yet, I still need to back mask a couple areas in the trunk and finish sealing around the flanges in the sail panels. Then the NHRA tech inspector that once gave me crap for not having a “fully sealed” rear firewall because of the battery in the trunk, can eat my shorts.
Ain’t catching me on that again.
Once that’s done, I’m going to let the entire rear firewall sit and cure for a couple weeks before I consider spraying the epoxy on it. This is because in my experience, the seam sealer tends to shrink a little bit as it cures, and if I spray product on it before it shrinks, it’ll crack the epoxy and look like a$$.
So there you have it guys, the rear firewall is nearly done. I have a little additional seam sealer work to do, a little sanding off of the excess sealer, and some very light pinhole filler work to do, then let it sit for a bit. Once those couple weeks have passed, I’ll mask off the entire rear firewall and shoot it in black epoxy.
I mentioned turning a corner at the beginning of this post, and turn I did. Today was Mike’s turn to come by my place and help out, so with the firewall pretty much done for now, we got focused back on the floor again. First order of business was to get the rear wheels back on it, then drop it down onto the car dollies. This step was necessary to ensure that the entire weight of the car was back on it’s wheels, and that no undue stress was being placed on the exhaust system because of a drooping front end or similar.
Haven’t seen it this low in many months!!
The little man doing what he does best, thinking, or “cyphering” as he calls it.
🤣🤣
The reminder of the day was spent cutting out the sections of the floor above the mufflers, for several reasons I’ll discuss later.
Here’s a few “work in progress” pictures for everyone’s amusement. Caution: professionals at work here!
More and more of the floor gradually got cut out as we progressed and the plan evolved, but I’m extremely happy and excited about the direction it’s headed. It’s checking off all the boxes in my revision checklist, and I think the end result will be more than worth it.
One last picture, you’re gonna have to kind of squint and use a little imagination to picture the finished product, but here’s a teaser of what we’re working towards:
This part that we’re creating the cardboard template of will close in the last 85% of the remaining floor work, the hardest and most complicated piece will be left until the very end - and that will be the transition pieces over the fronts of the tailpipes.
But we’ll cross that bridge when I get to it.
All for now guys,
D.
Thank you Eric. It’s nice to have at least one person comment on all the work that’s gone into it lately!
😅
It is really good to see the car on the ground 😀 Been so long I forgot what she looked like. Especially that hood!!!
I'm sure a lot of people don't understand the gravity of what you're doing there. Auto body 101 floors suck to replace. 202 inside corners and fine detail are things blocks don't do well and any extended work time inside the car is brutal on the body of the person doing it. Then take in the fabrication factor and the fumes. My hats off to you and your labor of love. I can't imagine there's many people doing close to what you are to an 80 cutlass or any other car. I'm sure most would give up or majorly sacrificed quality of workmanship if they tried.
I didn't understand the majority of the work he was doing in the last month or so. I saw it. But it is hard for me to wrap my head around the intricacies. I'm trying and still enjoying it. Plus the fact that his workmanship is probably 99.9% better than most in this "hobby". If I were to watch a brain surgeon operating... yea... very similar 😆
