Well pump issues...

[MontesbyE]

Gotta love a new mystery, to me it seems the pump has cavitation and sucking air. I have ran across this as a result of a falling water table. Had to pull the pump and add another section of poly pipe to reach the water. The contacts jumping like that isn't normal, I agree with the Square D throw out. Good luck to you.

 

[69hurstolds]

points are shot new regulator. they should not open and close while the pump is working.
and there is an adjustment to move the pressure thresholds larger then 40-60 .m my house pump is 30 years old and I have replaced 4 of these so far

good luck

That's certainly something worth checking. If the switch is old as hell, the diaphragm could be leaking and many time the pressure tube gets gobbed up with crud. Normally a 1/4" pipe so it doesn't take much. Usually there's a tell-tale and you'd see water dribbling out of it.

I would agree of zeroing in on the switch if it was ensured the water side was full and primed. It's still a possibility, but the point is, the switch is simply pressure activated. Does not always correlate to the mechanical pressure gage reading. If the switch "sees" 40 psi or below, it closes to energize the pump. If a pressure slug pushes it past to where it "sees" 60 psi, however short or long of time it is on, it will de-energize. The pressure fluctuations that I believe are from loss of prime is causing fake pressure spikes, touching 60+ psi then dropping back below 40 again. So it's going to cycle like crazy.

Troubleshooting from a distance and limited info is difficult.

 

[ck80]

That's certainly something worth checking. If the switch is old as hell, the diaphragm could be leaking and many time the pressure tube gets gobbed up with crud. Normally a 1/4" pipe so it doesn't take much. Usually there's a tell-tale and you'd see water dribbling out of it.

I would agree of zeroing in on the switch if it was ensured the water side was full and primed. It's still a possibility, but the point is, the switch is simply pressure activated. Does not always correlate to the mechanical pressure gage reading. If the switch "sees" 40 psi or below, it closes to energize the pump. If a pressure slug pushes it past to where it "sees" 60 psi, however short or long of time it is on, it will de-energize. The pressure fluctuations that I believe are from loss of prime is causing fake pressure spikes, touching 60+ psi then dropping back below 40 again. So it's going to cycle like crazy.

Troubleshooting from a distance and limited info is difficult.

Troubleshooting from 3 feet away is a PITA too for the uninitiated (me... or I guess I should say barely initiated. I lived 20 years on a well growing up and out house never had a problem aside from power outages.) It wouldn't surprise me if all of you are right and multiple things are wrong.

Unfortunately, when you weren't there when the problem first started, and, the guys who caused the problem aren't telling you exactly what happened and how because they're afraid of the financial exposure... that doesn't help things.

Being a shallow well could they have run it dry? Maybe. But they deny using any water.

So if we believe they didn't use water, why were multiple breakers turned on to activate it? Don't know, and they're claiming it was some sort of "honest mistake."

SOMEONE opened the well lid because they broke the concrete edges. But they don't admit to having fooled with anything inside.

I tried taking the easy route - calling the company that installed the last pump, and other in the area, and none of them repair this system anymore. It's a you're on your own or upgrade for a few grand situation. So, now it gbodywelltech101.

Fwiw, I videoed the noise/surging issues as the real world problem with functionality is there, but, I guess maybe doesn't stop there. As far as total system behavior, I watched it for a while, all PSI readings per the pressure gauge, you can take that for what it's worth.

When pressure falls to around 10-15psi on gauge, pump activates and pressurizes to about 35-40psi smoothly, before surging that was recorded happens. Surges have needle bouncing between 35-40 and 50ish psi back and forth, with the cycle time between surges getting very short before it shuts off. At shutoff pump is about 40psi, and slowly begins a leak down that, may/may not be driven by a now drippy hose bibb nobody knows anything about using. It will fall, without activation, back towards that 15ish psi or a bit below before the cycle repeats.

 

[69hurstolds]

Not knowing what area the house is located doesn't help. If you were down here in the south, no way your well wouldn't have water in it. With the deluge of rains we've had the last month, no way I would bet the well is dry. Not at a 25 foot water table.

But now what you're describing sounds more like a mucked up pressure switch if nobody has futzed around with it. Around here, the lever option pumptrol controller costs about 23 bucks at home crappot. Buy the 40-60 one and you should be fine. They're preset at the factory so it's plug and play. And at least THAT will be out of the equation. It's a bunch cheaper than a pump, so I'd go that route first. You should be turning on at about 38 psi or lower, not waiting until 15 psi. That's way too low.

Sounds like those bastages tried to use the water and likely piddled around with something.

 

[LeftLaneOnly]

I agree 15psi is very low for pump startup

 

[ck80]

I agree 15psi is very low for pump startup

Yes sir. Could be that something went cockeyed when they did the work. Contractor exclaimed surprise we were on a well. I'm not sure the capacity to be honest, and don't know the typical "bore" in a bored well. I do know the aboveground pipe casing is 24" ID.

But I could envision hoses being left on and the well getting drained dry because they didn't realize, then some dummy "tinkering" and thinking he was fixing things when really he was screwing with the nut for the adjustment where it kicks on pressure wise.

I also located a returnable but new similar sized pressure tank in the event they tried charging it with a compressor and blew a diaphragm inside, and got a dozen 1 gallon jugs to fill for the return trip. Source a new regulator, and, between the three ideas, or a combination of them, and hopefully the year old pump can somehow be salvaged....

 

[ck80]

So we have a resolution, and it looks like it was a lot of little things combined together.

Started verifying the air charge in the bladder. It was low so added air without any water pressure in lines. (Now 38#)

Pump still erratic, but better.

Swapped in new 40/60lb pressure switch. Now the pump would run smooth without that stutter, but still had excessive cycling. Difference now was it would pressurize smooth, then sloooooowly bleed down.

So, outlet tracing showed a bibb that didn't fully cut off flow when fully shut. Not enough room to get a pipe cutter close to the bibb, BUT. High rpm grinder to the rescue.

Even then, the sharkbite didn't have room to set enough at first and a trickle dripped out. So... out came a hammer and dollar tree prybar-turned-chisel. Whack whack whack and you get a round, recessed, opening the size of the sharkbite bibb backing plate sunken into the brick. That allows the pipe to press in further, leak stopped.

Pump now holds a steady pressure without leaking down unless something turned on.

Inside the house, had a LOT of trouble clearing the lines. Pulled the aerator heads off the faucets and DARK brown mud came out it was so heavy with sediment.

So, it appears the well must have been run waaaaaaay low and sucked up all kind of junk.

Pics in the AM, work done for the day

 

[LeftLaneOnly]

check your filter bet its trash also.

 

[ssn696]

Thanks for the update. It’s good to get this feedback after all the armchair diagnoses fly around. Glad to hear that you seem to be on your way to closure.

 

[69hurstolds]

Good to hear you got things sorted out. Mostly, anyway.

The stop start/stuttering of the pump could have churned up mud around the suction pipe and guess where the debris goes?

Do you have a trash filter in the suction line to the pump, or whole house filters going into the home? If not, you should consider them. If you're getting mud out the faucets, you're getting mud in the toilet water tanks too, along with the water heater, etc. That could wreak havoc on those in-tank toilet valves as well.

When the contractor built our house and installed the well, the contractor never put any filters in anything and used the water as they saw fit to finish up. Which meant mud everywhere. I never had a well before and was ignorant of what all came with well-maintenance. I immediately went and got a trash filter (cleanable) and two whole house filters in tandem. MUCH better now. Every few months I swap out the house filters and periodically drain the trash filter and 20 minutes every 3 months takes care of that. I try to buy the house filter elements in bulk. Never know. <$100 in filters a year is worth it.

As far as the bladder tank, if you have a water to air leak, you'll see that at the air loading valve (tire valve). If water comes out of it when you press on it to let a bit of air out, there's a problem. If not, your leak may simply be at the air valve itself.