What did you buy for your G body today? [2022]

[CopperNick]

All true, except that what I am running is a Muncie. Built on a 1 inch countershaft, post 67 case with Texas Gear internals, mostly. No boss for a backup switch, it was mounted on an external bracket with an actuating rod that connected to the reverse lever on the tail shaft.

I do happen to have two saginaws; both need synchro blockers at the very least. One came from a mid 80's Camaro and has the shifter mechanism attached to it. The other is an orphan and may have been a back up to the one in my old V-8 Monza. That would make it about 25 years old. Suppose that they would be more politically correct but hey, I never did pay all that much attention to politics.

So the lock out mechanism may just prove to be unnecessary but, better to have the kit JIC, than not and discover that I need it.



Nick

 

[pagrunt]

All true, except that what I am running is a Muncie. Built on a 1 inch countershaft, post 67 case with Texas Gear internals, mostly. No boss for a backup switch, it was mounted on an external bracket with an actuating rod that connected to the reverse lever on the tail shaft.

I do happen to have two saginaws; both need synchro blockers at the very least. One came from a mid 80's Camaro and has the shifter mechanism attached to it. The other is an orphan and may have been a back up to the one in my old V-8 Monza. That would make it about 25 years old. Suppose that they would be more politically correct but hey, I never did pay all that much attention to politics.

So the lock out mechanism may just prove to be unnecessary but, better to have the kit JIC, than not and discover that I need it.



Nick

There is no physical location to attach it back drive to the column as it was on the '69-'72 A or '69,'70-'81 F units for example. Now if you're talking about shifter mounter back up switches those are either plunger activated or operated by a small linkage rod.

 

[CopperNick]

I guess at this point a bit of backstory might explain the current situation.

First of all, when I got this 85 of Mine to begin with, it was very much a mutt, in terms of it's mechanical pedigree. As acquired, it came with a Vortec 305 and a TH200R4. That vortec was not original to the car. They didn't start showing up until either 86 or 87-88, and I am aware that the 88's were just leftover stock that got re-yeared for the advertising. What it has now is a year correct, according to the block casting number, 305. What it also got as part of the renovation process was an OEM 4 Speed Transmission based on an M2* Muncie case that came bored for the one inch countershaft. I had a core Muncie that I had planned to use but, when I opened it up, most of the guts were hatched; so I got to build my own Transmission= FUN?? I did go with factory original parts as much as possible during all this; this car is not going to be raced or rodded and is definitely not a red Light Bandit. If anything, the rear end wouldn't tolerate the abuse.

What It also was not, was a console shift, it had a column, or on the tree, shifter. The thing about the column is that, in addition to having the internal linkage in it that attaches to the rod and bell crank mechanism that is bolted to the proportioning valve down on the frame, it also has the internal lock rod that keeps the key from being removed while the vehicle is being operated. (Genuine GM safety device to keep people from locking their doors and walking away from a running car.)

What I am trying to do is to reconcile the stock steering column with the car now being a 4 speed. Which means that I somehow have to either delete, or adapt, the resident lockout mechanism in the mast. Hence the idea of the early model lock out mechanism.

Thinking about what i have just written, what it may come down to is a swap out of the column shift and a swap in of a console version that would come with all the useless to me stuff already deleted. I do have spare columns, it is the internal changes that are the kicker as little items like how the lock cylinder is retained, which changed during the production run, can and will cause me grief.

So I guess what I am working with here is something of a Resto-mod; more or less stock looking on the outside and all the good stuff hidden away from prying eyes. Call it subtle??



Nick

 

[ck80]

Thinking about what i have just written, what it may come down to is a swap out of the column shift and an swap in of a console version that would come with all the useless to me stuff already deleted.

Whelp...

I may be mis-reading. And I probably am.

Not sure what everything you push into the 'useless to you' laundry list, but, if by console shift version vs column shift version you mean gbody columns from column shift cars.... well...

There's almost no difference between the two. As in, literally it's just the lever arm being deleted, and, a smooth collar ring instead of having small mounting flange to attach said lever to.

A floor shift (automatic) car even has linkage up from trans to column just like column shifted and hooked up to transmission from the factory as well as the second cable connected to the floor shifter. When you shift the factory floor shifter, and watch the column, the smooth ring even rotates as if you were tugging on the lever arm.

Old school service hack when the floor shifter cable got messed up was to actually grab the column ring with both hands and manually rotate it to shift the car into gear.

I guess short moral of the story is, unless I'm misreading your thoughts, a floor shift automatic column isn't the same as a manual shift column for the gbodies. Different animal. Bunch of other parts are still inside, and, might impact your plans. Any mods you'd need to do to would be same for both aside from appearance-wise with the shift lever arm on the ring.

Again, unless I'm reading incorrect, which I'm very willing to believe I am.

 

[CopperNick]

NO. You are definitely NOT mis-reading my missive. Pre blow apart, I had the center console and the cable shifter, and the mechanical rod and bell crank set up to move the lever at the bottom of the steering mast that caused the little register needle on the dash to walk back and forth. That column is the one still currently resident in the car.

Here is the problem. Right now, with the last shift ever made by the cable, the position of the shifter needle on the column is in "Park". In that position, the key for the ignition can come and go more or less as it pleases. The thing here is that, unless the key is in the lock, the steering wheel is locked, which is good. However, locking the wheel does not lock the 4-speed. Anyone B and E-ing the car can simply pop the shifter out of gear into neutral and the car will roll. Can't turn the wheel but the car will still roll and if a car jacking is the intent, they will have come equipped with a slide puller and the ignition tumbler is already history.😠 Great for vandalism.

Where I am going with this is that I want to be able to lock both the steering wheel and the transmission. As I mentioned in a previous comment, my neighbour's 70 GTO had exactly that capability. The only way the ignition key could be removed from the tumblers was if the transmission was set in reverse. There was something called or termed a "Back Rod" that was attached to the reverse lever and which actuated a bell crank that moved another rod that was attached to a piece of linkage inside the steering column. Once the engine was shut down, the shifter went into reverse, the key got rotated to the locked position and would then come out

Summarily, Placing the transmission in reverse was the manual equivalent of "park" for an automatic and in that position, it allowed the key to be removed, but only if the car was in the correct gear., namely, Reverse.

My end game in all this is to recreate that Back Rod installation in my 85SS, something it didn't have to begin with (But then again it didn't come with a 4 spd either) and use it as a way to lock the box. Essentially I am retrofitting older technology into a newer vehicle. Like that hasn't been done before.

For me this is all about vehicle security. I don't own a dog and acquiring one just to toss it in the back seat every night as a theft deterrent is a pain. They gotta be walked at stupid hours of the night in all kinds of weather and would probably just s**t and p*ss all over the upholstery. (Don't have a wife for mostly the same sorts of reasons but that is another story and not fit for communal consumption.)

So the why of all this is Security for the Car, and the how of it is by adapting a a mechanism that used to be found in older cars.



Nick

 

[pagrunt]

I guess at this point a bit of backstory might explain the current situation.

First of all, when I got this 85 of Mine to begin with, it was very much a mutt, in terms of it's mechanical pedigree. As acquired, it came with a Vortec 305 and a TH200R4. That vortec was not original to the car. They didn't start showing up until either 86 or 87-88, and I am aware that the 88's were just leftover stock that got re-yeared for the advertising. What it has now is a year correct, according to the block casting number, 305. What it also got as part of the renovation process was an OEM 4 Speed Transmission based on an M2* Muncie case that came bored for the one inch countershaft. I had a core Muncie that I had planned to use but, when I opened it up, most of the guts were hatched; so I got to build my own Transmission= FUN?? I did go with factory original parts as much as possible during all this; this car is not going to be raced or rodded and is definitely not a red Light Bandit. If anything, the rear end wouldn't tolerate the abuse.

What It also was not, was a console shift, it had a column, or on the tree, shifter. The thing about the column is that, in addition to having the internal linkage in it that attaches to the rod and bell crank mechanism that is bolted to the proportioning valve down on the frame, it also has the internal lock rod that keeps the key from being removed while the vehicle is being operated. (Genuine GM safety device to keep people from locking their doors and walking away from a running car.)

What I am trying to do is to reconcile the stock steering column with the car now being a 4 speed. Which means that I somehow have to either delete, or adapt, the resident lockout mechanism in the mast. Hence the idea of the early model lock out mechanism.

Thinking about what i have just written, what it may come down to is a swap out of the column shift and a swap in of a console version that would come with all the useless to me stuff already deleted. I do have spare columns, it is the internal changes that are the kicker as little items like how the lock cylinder is retained, which changed during the production run, can and will cause me grief.

So I guess what I am working with here is something of a Resto-mod; more or less stock looking on the outside and all the good stuff hidden away from prying eyes. Call it subtle??



Nick

Whelp...

I may be mis-reading. And I probably am.

Not sure what everything you push into the 'useless to you' laundry list, but, if by console shift version vs column shift version you mean gbody columns from column shift cars.... well...

There's almost no difference between the two. As in, literally it's just the lever arm being deleted, and, a smooth collar ring instead of having small mounting flange to attach said lever to.

A floor shift (automatic) car even has linkage up from trans to column just like column shifted and hooked up to transmission from the factory as well as the second cable connected to the floor shifter. When you shift the factory floor shifter, and watch the column, the smooth ring even rotates as if you were tugging on the lever arm.

Old school service hack when the floor shifter cable got messed up was to actually grab the column ring with both hands and manually rotate it to shift the car into gear.

I guess short moral of the story is, unless I'm misreading your thoughts, a floor shift automatic column isn't the same as a manual shift column for the gbodies. Different animal. Bunch of other parts are still inside, and, might impact your plans. Any mods you'd need to do to would be same for both aside from appearance-wise with the shift lever arm on the ring.

Again, unless I'm reading incorrect, which I'm very willing to believe I am.

Here's the best (in my opinion) description of the columns used in A/G's.

Over all there are 12 basic different columns & this is because of the changes done for the '79 model year. This 6 for '78 & 6 for '79 up, difference being with the change from splined lower shaft & the "punch & press" ignition lock to the double "D" lower & screw retained lock. So this will the leave 6 removing those differences: column shift with & with out tilt, floor automatic with & with out tilt, floor manual with & with out tilt. I could include with out & with turn lever wiper switch but anyone with the tools, parts & skills can convert between the two as all columns were originally desingned for the turn lever wiper switch but wasn't used until '82. To break it down to make things simpler, remove method of shfifting, we have 4. As stated all automatic columns are only different be being or not being a tilt coulmns. The shifter bowl, where the column lever is the only difference & one can convert one to a floor unit by grinding off the mount ears & fill in the hole. Again, with the tools, parts & skills one can even swap out the bowls. One note I'll add that might even add 2 more columns is I'm not 100% if 3 speed & 4 speed autos have different detents for number of gear positions. For this I'm not going to get into detents. There is a difference in the shifter linkage rods between the 3 & 4 speed autos. The floor shift cars use the same linkage as the column shift cars. Remember, the back up & starter interlock switch is on the column along with the gear indicator pull wire. Now with a manual, They are different since there is no shifter interaction/linkage/connection what so ever. Not even to the reverse switch or starter interlock switch. Those do have a key lock lever that needs to be pressed in order to allow the lock cylinder to turn to the LOCK position from the RUN position. The lock cylinder regardless of the column it is used in has the internal key retainer that doesn't let the key to be removed until placed in the LOCK position, worn keys will pull out. There are no manual columns with a wiper switch as the were only used for '78-'81. With the manuals, the back up switch is part of the OE transmission.

I know this was long winded & a bit boring but hope it clears up the differences. I also have a '78 & a '81 manual non tilt columns if pics are needed.

 

[CopperNick]

Interesting. As of a while ago as part of adding the third pedal, the neutral safety switch, aka, I suspect, your Starter interlock switch, got moved from the column to the clutch pedal. To initiate a start, the pedal has to be depressed before the key will spin the starter motor. That is a slide switch that is attached to a sheet metal bracket above the clutch pedal, and can be adjusted for free play prior to operation. The entire assembly, pedals and linkages and brackets, is all GM, harvested from the corpse of an 80 Saudi Malibu that never made it to the sand pile. (Long story, different thread) Could have obtained the parts from OPG but had the OEM on hand and built a good one out of two or three of the ones I scored.

From what you have written, it sounds like I might be able to come and go on the column without having to deal wit the lockout issue. I can reasonably say that my existing column has the double D hollow steering shaft and the ignition lock is retained by a screw.

However, and more to my point, that would still leave me unable to lock the transmission in gear against the possibility of theft.

I think that the plan now will be to slide under the Monte and do a mock up of the lockout assembly and see how it falls together.

 

[2drx4]

I bought a few things today:

-2" drop spindles from some random company on Amazon
-Moog CC635 coil springs
-Moog 5660 coil springs
-Moog upper/lower balljoints
-ACDelco bumpstops (I looked at the Energy Suspension ones and went meh)
-ACDelco front coil isolators
-Pair of 3rd gen F-body rear coil isolators off eBay

I need shocks too but figured I'd throw it together and get the ride height sorted and then measure for them. The whole car needs a once over, so I'm sure I'll be doing another order shortly.

 

[pagrunt]

Not really bought anything but was going to until this gentleman ahead of me in line of the Pittsburgh U Pull & Pay offered to buy everything for me by putting it all on top of his stuff in his wheel barrel as it was $50 for a loaded wheel barrel today. He had a complete 4 banger & transmission in his! I offered to pay him for my share but said it wasn't needed. Not sure if it was cause I was wearing my Army Infantry hat or the fact I couldn't find enough junk to fill mine. But I'm greatful for his generosity & thanked him. Still some acts of kindness out there.

 

[86LK]

Not really bought anything but was going to until this gentleman ahead of me in line of the Pittsburgh U Pull & Pay offered to buy everything for me by putting it all on top of his stuff in his wheel barrel as it was $50 for a loaded wheel barrel today. He had a complete 4 banger & transmission in his! I offered to pay him for my share but said it wasn't needed. Not sure if it was cause I was wearing my Army Infantry hat or the fact I couldn't find enough junk to fill mine. But I'm greatful for his generosity & thanked him. Still some acts of kindness out there.

what a bargain...for all of you! they charge $100 for a full wheelbarrow at the Wrench-a-Part down here, but it has to fit under the turnstile bar. so you have to be looking for high-dollar items you can re-sell, like alternators, a/c compressors, etc