why oldsmobile?
- Thread starter Cutty1
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Not selling enough cars. Watch for other divisions to fall soon.
Americans don't think there's repercussions to buying imports.
DOES EVERYBODY GET IT NOW??
Americans don't think there's repercussions to buying imports.
DOES EVERYBODY GET IT NOW??
GM killed Oldsmobile due to declining sales.
Sales declined most likely because there wasn't enough difference between Buick and Olds to sustain the market for each and Buick was doing better at the time.
Sadly, Buick's current lineup is dull while the Olds lineup at time of death was pretty good.
Sales declined most likely because there wasn't enough difference between Buick and Olds to sustain the market for each and Buick was doing better at the time.
Sadly, Buick's current lineup is dull while the Olds lineup at time of death was pretty good.
at that time i didnt buick did that much better then olds... but i guess so what year was it when they stopped 1999-2000?
Geesie said:
GM killed Olds because they needed to give the appearance of doing something. Saturn has never made money, yet they killed Olds. Go figure.
I heard olds was GM's guinea pig brand during the last decade or two, they used the company to try new things. Suffice to say those things didn't take well in the buyers market. The problem I saw was they finally got it together the last couple years, have you seen the 03/04 aurora?
Also the quad 4 never caught on when it really should have. I think olds made a huge mistake in the 90's by not dropping the engine in a tiny lightweight car. It would've put huge pressure on the foreign makers and I think things would be a lot different today.
Also the quad 4 never caught on when it really should have. I think olds made a huge mistake in the 90's by not dropping the engine in a tiny lightweight car. It would've put huge pressure on the foreign makers and I think things would be a lot different today.
Olds DID put the Quad 4 in a small car, the N body (N body= J body but a little different) Calais. It was a reliability nightmare, which is why it didn't sell well. GM even put it in the Beretta GTU for a few years, but no sale. 190hp in a 2.3 liter 4 is good even by today's standards, but all the power in the world is nothing without reliability. In fact, my disgust with a Quad 4 Calais I owned is what made me switch from domestic to Japanese cars. The Quad 4 may be a great engine on paper, but believe me, it was horrible in execution!
As for why GM killed Olds rather than Buick, I don't know. Both traditionally catered to the same niche. I guess GM didn't need three geezer divisions when two (Caddy+Buick) would do. Nowadays, Caddy makes cars that are actually desired by people who are not centenarians, but Buick on the other hand is the Mercury of GM and likely not long for this world. As for Saturn, they make the best looking cars of any GM division, but I don't see them surviving either.
As for why GM killed Olds rather than Buick, I don't know. Both traditionally catered to the same niche. I guess GM didn't need three geezer divisions when two (Caddy+Buick) would do. Nowadays, Caddy makes cars that are actually desired by people who are not centenarians, but Buick on the other hand is the Mercury of GM and likely not long for this world. As for Saturn, they make the best looking cars of any GM division, but I don't see them surviving either.
85 Cutlass Brougham said:
Brougham, I already know about the N body Calais and Acheiva. They were heavier and bigger than the tiny J body platforms like the cavalier and sunfire. Also, the quad four was a reliable engine, my sister had one and finally crapped out around 180,000 miles. They could (and still can) be built to very high N/A HP levels.
I tend not to view 180k as very high miles before an engine gives up. For me, there have to be numerous examples that see 300-500k miles before I consider it a reliable engine (See my sig). My pizza delivery truck (since new) has 312,000 miles and 180psi of compression on all 4 cylinders and has not had so much as a single sensor failure in 10 years. Yes, the OE clutch gave up at 200k, the original water pump only lasted 190k, and the original starter went at around 270k, but all in all it has been a fairly reliable vehicle. I fully expect to see 400K+ before the original engine ever needs to be removed from the truck. However, this is a very common experience with KA24E and KA24DE powered Nissan D21 (Hardbody) and D22 (Frontier) pickups, not an anomaly like ANYTHING with a Quad 4.
BTW, the Quad 4's second generation (they stopped using the Quad 4 name because it was so tarnished) was installed in the Cavalier Z-24 after the 1995 restyle of the aging J body platform. It was only replaced with the Ecotec in 2002 or 2003. The problem was that GM products of this era were not competitive with their Japanese counterparts in handling, build quality or reliability. I have had 2 Sentras from the 1990's, and compared to a Cavalier from 2003 they were far better cars in terms of build quality. I knew someone who had a new one in 2002 and could not believe how awful it was. The interior reeked of Chevette like cheapness and the panel fit was very poor. The switches, stereo, etc. felt like they were made in a Soviet car factory, not a product of a first rate company.
BTW, the Quad 4's second generation (they stopped using the Quad 4 name because it was so tarnished) was installed in the Cavalier Z-24 after the 1995 restyle of the aging J body platform. It was only replaced with the Ecotec in 2002 or 2003. The problem was that GM products of this era were not competitive with their Japanese counterparts in handling, build quality or reliability. I have had 2 Sentras from the 1990's, and compared to a Cavalier from 2003 they were far better cars in terms of build quality. I knew someone who had a new one in 2002 and could not believe how awful it was. The interior reeked of Chevette like cheapness and the panel fit was very poor. The switches, stereo, etc. felt like they were made in a Soviet car factory, not a product of a first rate company.
srercrcr said:
There are repercussions to buying piss poor quality domestic cars. I really don't care of a bunch of union guys lose their jobs if the product they made was low quality. If I can't expect 400k miles from your cheapest car with almost perfect reliability, then I really could give two sh*ts if you still have a job. My Japanese truck is one of the reasons I can afford to pay my bills. it gives excellent service with nary a problem. Even on the rare occasion it does have something going wrong, it gives fair notice and I usually have a month to a year before it becomes a real issue. It has helped me convert many former domestic car buyers to Japan as they were tired of the sh*t spewed forth onto the roads by GM, Ford and Chrysler, and their own negative experiences. Own one and you'll understand. I will also say that if it means that all of the retirees lose 100% of their benefits to keep the Detroit three afloat, so be it. They provide nothing to the corporations anymore and are therefore expendable. They should have saved money while they were employed and planned properly for retirement. It is not up to me to pay for their benefits.
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